Not By Works

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Dec 27, 2018
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I agree.

Until is an imporatant word.


Until he is found, the sheep is lost.



Do you understand that the lost need salvation?




JPT
Yes, especially when the lost sheep represented the Publicans and sinners in that passage. Jesus was answering the Pharisee's murdering about Him receiving them by stating that His very purpose in coming was to seek them...and us
 
Dec 27, 2018
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What does Eph 2:10 have to do with this subject?

Ephesians 2:10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.
Excellent question. It has to do with the fact that the awesome plans and purposes God has for us, and the things He will do in us and through us are part of the wonderful adoption package He arranged for us before we were born, even before He made the world
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Excellent question. It has to do with the fact that the awesome plans and purposes God has for us, and the things He will do in us and through us are part of the wonderful adoption package He arranged for us before we were born, even before He made the world
And lest someone misunderstand, they are BLESSINGS, not conditions
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Thus my belief in one saved, always saved. How can one be saved over and over and over again? Jesus only shed His precious blood one time.
...by asking G-d for forgiveness...that's' how. Don't you ask for forgiveness daily?....shame....you must in order to ..."maintain"...by G-d's word.

No such thing as OSAS. We are not even...saved...while on this earth...we are born again. G-d determines if we are saved when we receive His judgement. That is after death. So, how can we be saved while alive on this earth?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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...by asking G-d for forgiveness...that's' how. Don't you ask for forgiveness daily?....shame....you must in order to ..."maintain"...by G-d's word.

No such thing as OSAS. We are not even...saved...while on this earth...we are born again. G-d determines if we are saved when we receive His judgement. That is after death. So, how can we be saved while alive on this earth?
Wow.........just...wow.

300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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No such thing as OSAS. We are not even...saved...while on this earth...we are born again. G-d determines if we are saved when we receive His judgement. That is after death. So, how can we be saved while alive on this earth?
Hi preston39, the book of 1st John say's these things were written that we may "know that we have eternal life." How do you explain the fact that the bible say's "may know that we have eternal life?

And you say we are not even saved while on this earth......wow that's not even, "good news."

1John5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so "that you may know that you have eternal life."​
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Now for a final question. "Are we saved or kept saved by works? YES!!!" Both are accomplished by the WORKS OF GOD . Ie what HE DOES and IS DOING

Peace out
Hi Macabeus, thank you for your honesty. This is the question that everyone has wanted you to answer about our eternal salvation;

Quote: "Are we saved or kept saved by works? YES!!!" Both are accomplished by the WORKS OF GOD

And so if I understand correctly we are "kept saved" by "our works and God's works;" meaning salvation is a synergistic relationship and our eternal salvation is maintained by both God and ourselves working together and everything from being born again to our completion is a gift of God.

I hope I have your doctrine of salvation correct and not misinterpreting your words.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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...by asking G-d for forgiveness...that's' how. Don't you ask for forgiveness daily?....shame....you must in order to ..."maintain"...by G-d's word.

No such thing as OSAS. We are not even...saved...while on this earth...we are born again. G-d determines if we are saved when we receive His judgement. That is after death. So, how can we be saved while alive on this earth?


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

John 10:28-30 (HCSB)
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

1 Peter 1:5 (HCSB)
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:8-9 (HCSB)
8 You love Him, though you have not seen Him. And though not seeing Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 because you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace,
which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Hi Macabeus, thank you for your honesty. This is the question that everyone has wanted you to answer about our eternal salvation;

Quote: "Are we saved or kept saved by works? YES!!!" Both are accomplished by the WORKS OF GOD

And so if I understand correctly we are "kept saved" by "our works and God's works;" meaning salvation is a synergistic relationship and our eternal salvation is maintained by both God and ourselves working together and everything from being born again to our completion is a gift of God.

I hope I have your doctrine of salvation correct and not misinterpreting your words.
I wouldn't want to take my salvation out of God's hands. When I said we are kept saved by God's work, I meant Christ's priestly ministry, continual cleansing, the Holy Spirits work, etc. I trust God to keep me

What I do affect things like how effective I am in serving God, whether I grow and how fast or slow, assurance and peace, my testimony, and the quality of my earthly life.

The things that are affected in the second paragraph are reasons enough for dilligence to add to my faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge,etc+2 Peter 1, without even having to worry about my salvation, WHICH I DONT, because i know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed to Him
 
Dec 27, 2018
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I wouldn't want to take my salvation out of God's hands. When I said we are kept saved by God's work, I meant Christ's priestly ministry, continual cleansing, the Holy Spirits work, etc. I trust God to keep me

What I do affect things like how effective I am in serving God, whether I grow and how fast or slow, assurance and peace, my testimony, and the quality of my earthly life.

The things that are affected in the second paragraph are reasons enough for dilligence to add to my faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge,etc+2 Peter 1, without even having to worry about my salvation, WHICH I DONT, because i know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed to Him
And no, I am not a synergist, and the term is misleading. Arminians do not believe that Christians add their work to God's work, which is what the syn plus ergos would mean if taken at face value.

I am not Calvinist or Arminian, but I was a classical Arminian for a long time, and we didn't teach the slanderous things that are attributes to Arminians. Maybe some modern arminians, but not classical Arminian

I am a half Calv. I believe in Depravity and perserverance, and acknowledge that I don't fully understand the basis of God's election. On the other side, I believe Jesus died for all, but His death is only effectual for those who believe and I believe that grace can be resisted, ie God enables us to believe or reject, He basically throws open the prison doors and says come out, but some choose to stay in bondage
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I wouldn't want to take my salvation out of God's hands. When I said we are kept saved by God's work, I meant Christ's priestly ministry, continual cleansing, the Holy Spirits work, etc. I trust God to keep me

What I do affect things like how effective I am in serving God, whether I grow and how fast or slow, assurance and peace, my testimony, and the quality of my earthly life.

The things that are affected in the second paragraph are reasons enough for dilligence to add to my faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge,etc+2 Peter 1, without even having to worry about my salvation, WHICH I DONT, because i know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed to Him
Hi Macabeus, thank you for your response its getting a bit late here God bless!
 
Dec 27, 2018
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And no, I am not a synergist, and the term is misleading. Arminians do not believe that Christians add their work to God's work, which is what the syn plus ergos would mean if taken at face value.

I am not Calvinist or Arminian, but I was a classical Arminian for a long time, and we didn't teach the slanderous things that are attributes to Arminians. Maybe some modern arminians, but not classical Arminian

I am a half Calv. I believe in Depravity and perserverance, and acknowledge that I don't fully understand the basis of God's election. On the other side, I believe Jesus died for all, but His death is only effectual for those who believe and I believe that grace can be resisted, ie God enables us to believe or reject, He basically throws open the prison doors and says come out, but some choose to stay in bondage
Perserverance of the saints or perserverance for short is the scriptural teaching that those who are truly saved will perservere to the end because God keeps them. They may fall, and get back up, but their fall will not be final
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Perserverance of the saints or perserverance for short is the scriptural teaching that those who are truly saved will perservere to the end because God keeps them. They may fall, and get back up, but their fall will not be final
Thanks again, God grants sleep....:sleep:

Psalm 127:2
"for he grants sleep to those he loves."
 
Dec 27, 2018
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My opinion: Paul was giving God credit for the good works he was doing.

Just like in Philippians 2:13 it is GOD who works in you to do and will of His good pleasure.

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Exactly my point. Thank you

As to the rest, no, God doesn't make us puppets. Just as salvatiin can be received or rejected, so can all other gifts.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Ok, John 6:44-65 and Ephesians 2: 1-10.
Phil 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Phil 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are through Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.