Not By Works

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NoNameMcgee

Guest
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

there are two sorts of brances here


branches that bare fruit

"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"


and branches that do not bare fruit

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"

this is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

dont you understand when this is being said?

what judas already did and what was about to happen?


but this has NOTHING to do with the loss of salvation to a saved believer


and MUCH to do with two separate types of men in the same congregation of "believers" (in Him)
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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Jesus did not say if you ask forgiveness, you just added to jesus words,

Again, did jesis say they WILL be forgiven men, or might

Stick to what we are talking about, you all iver the place.
Im not all iver the place at all. I have already explained it. If you commit a sin, any sin it can be forgiven. That is not the same as living a sinfull lifestyle. Any one particular sin can be forgiven. Living a lifestyle of sin is totally different.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Im not all iver the place at all. I have already explained it. If you commit a sin, any sin it can be forgiven. That is not the same as living a sinfull lifestyle. Any one particular sin can be forgiven. Living a lifestyle of sin is totally different.
Again,

Jesus sad ALL sin (not some) WILL be FORGIVEN (not might) sons of MEN,

did jesus lie?
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
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Again,

Jesus sad ALL sin (not some) WILL be FORGIVEN (not might) sons of MEN,

did jesus lie?
You have been answered. The reference is not to living a sinfull lifestyle as a believer. And if you refuse to accept what is plainly the truth, you will have to throw out half the books of the NT for Paul states/warns living a lifestyle of sin as he states in Gal5:19-21 will bar you from the kingdom of Heaven
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You have been answered. The reference is not to living a sinfull lifestyle as a believer. And if you refuse to accept what is plainly the truth, you will have to throw out half the books of the NT for Paul states/warns living a lifestyle of sin as he states in Gal5:19-21 will bar you from the kingdom of Heaven
Well your wrong

Jesus said all sin, he meant all whether you like it or not.

John said a child of god can not live a sinful lifestyle, and whoever does live in sin has never seen god or known him, so your wrong twice.

Good luck thinking your so righteous, the pharisee thought so too,

When you are humbled like the tax collector come see me
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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Who do you think this doctrine refers to the believer or God?

Someone wrote on a thread here BDF... a while back ... and she stated very clearly coming from a Calvinist point of view that God chooses those whom He knows will preserver......is that what you believe?
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
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Well your wrong

Jesus said all sin, he meant all whether you like it or not.

John said a child of god can not live a sinful lifestyle, and whoever does live in sin has never seen god or known him, so your wrong twice.

Good luck thinking your so righteous, the pharisee thought so too,

When you are humbled like the tax collector come see me
If I am wrong Paul is wrong and if Paul is wrong then you have to throw out half the books of the NT. I rather think humility would be seen by admitting to error, rather than being prepared to cast aspersions on Paul's message.
As for your personal attack on me, I am not suprised
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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I couldn't find anything I disagreed with. In fact it was very well written.

Being born again is like a babe in Christ. He must grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord...

We walk in the light as it is shined on us. We use to call this maturing in Christ or simply growing.

I do not believe in sinless perfection but I do believe Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and follow me"

Notice he said HEAR (Present tense) not HEARD. And FOLLOW (present tense) not FOLLOWED
Its so nice when brothers in the faith are in agreement. We must enjoy it while it lasts lol
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Who do you think this doctrine refers to the believer or God?

Someone wrote on a thread here BDF... a while back ... and she stated very clearly coming from a Calvinist point of view that God chooses those whom He knows will preserver......is that what you believe?
I dont believe God chooses anyone because of what they do for salvation!

I believe a true believer will persevere in the faith! They wouldnt take the mark of the beast for example, it says the people who dont take it are those who "are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world"

Faith has overcome the world!
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
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Did ananias and Sapphira go to heaven after Satan filled there heart and they lied to God?
I'm just curious as to how you will explain this scripture away

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Hebrews 3:12‭-‬14 KJV
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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I dont believe God chooses anyone because of what they do for salvation!

I believe a true believer will persevere in the faith! They wouldnt take the mark of the beast for example, it says the people who dont take it are those who "are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world"

Faith has overcome the world!
Well, a true believer can fall from grace, (not salvation see Hebrews) the bible is full of scenarios where this has happened, it is not their effort that keeps them saved but falling from grace can and does happen, because we still contend with the flesh, with Satan and the world.

True believers mess up all the time, it is really sad that this doctrine has so permeated the church and it is not what scripture teaches, the church at Corinth being a prime example.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I think the trolls have left the building, big Thank You to whomever dealt with it.:)
Hi UnderGrace, I do not believe these trolls are gone yet, these 2 posters are still randomly giving RED X's, and never leaving a comment therefore you cannot report them. If you go to their profile it say's, quote: "This user's profile is not available." so go figure. Are these trolls gone, I do not think so, just let the forum be cautious.

Disagree UNLESSYOUDOPENANCE

Disagree PROTESTANTHERETICS
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I'm just curious as to how you will explain this scripture away

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Hebrews 3:12‭-‬14 KJV
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will be saved (future indicative) if you (future indicative) persevere." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, really saved, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to Christ."

Hebrews 3:8-10 says, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it. Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah. And of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrews who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. What about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God, yet initially begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty, but later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
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I can probably name Christian teachers for all denominations that are orthodox that will agree with what I have been saying. My point is, if I am a deceiver and a scripture twister, then you are calling all these men I am going to cite deceivers and scripture twisters. And I have a feeling that non Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, non denominational, and a host of others will be represented.

Because my interpretation of Ephesians 2:10 is based on fundamental rules of exegesis.

I probably won't post them all until tommorow night, because I do have internet, but it is limited and I can't get to all my resources. This is not my computer, so I am not going to do a lot of surfing, it's not always safe. I will wait till I have my own computer.
okay, then you and Calvin are deceivers and scripture twisters if you teach OSAS doctrine...in fact i have been warned that if an ANGEL come preaching any other doctrine to tell him he is a deceiver and a scripture twister
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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It seems like even lieing to the Holy Spirit is allowed in your OSAS group.

Here's what the bible says;

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

You have just exposed the true colors of OSAS believers and I see those who agreed with you.

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.Ephesians 5:6

...And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11

Yes, they were saved. The Bible says all who were there were believers. As I've said many times, God does chastise His children, even to the point of taking them home, but they can never be lost.

At the moment of conversion, one is saved forever. Even if they walk away later. They couldn't go to hell if they tried. If salvation is truly a gift, and grace actually unmerited, this has to be so.