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Feb 13, 2019
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So, you're saying belief must be maintained after initial salvational belief? Are you saying salvation is given as a gift, and then Jesus is saying it's now up to us to maintain it?

Tell me, how long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?

A second?

A minute?

An hour, a day, a week, a month?

And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?

If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?

Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?

What if a Christian dies an alcoholic? Or a drug addict? How about if he dies as a gossiper, or a liar? What happens to the Christian who died lusting after women?

If you are correct, then grace is not unmerited, and salvation is a gift with strings attached, which negates it as a gift entirely.
Does God allow a heretic into heaven?
 
Feb 13, 2019
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Not as disappointed as I am with you.

No you have not because those specific words are not found in the Bible.

Typical on the surface, biased interpretations of losing salvation. Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, along with new desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these people because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. *Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and was never saved.

In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

*Notice how I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. ;)

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as you teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) *Also, in Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers and not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but who has committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community was only superficial and that he was among them, but not of them.

I have explained nothing away, but have properly harmonized scripture with scripture.
Do you believe God allows a heretic into heaven?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He has been trying to make @eternally-gratefull look bad for about 3 days now....as well as myself.......that has been his tangent.......a complete waste of time
He did not like it when i called him out for saying you implied something i knew you never would say. He is still trying to,defend himself instead of just admit he made a mistake, that about says it all.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I thought that you were done with this thread? You said, "Who cares what the Greek word is" which says it all for you. You are very satisfied with what you already believe and don't want to be confused with the facts. Jesus said they BELIEVED for a while, but He DID NOT SAY they were SAVED for a while. The same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe "pisteuo" on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) *The CONTEXT determines the content of what is believed.

John has portrayed people who "believe" but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. You called that saved?
Another one said they were done and still argues? Wow, becoming a thing,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So, you're saying belief must be maintained after initial salvational belief? Are you saying salvation is given as a gift, and then Jesus is saying it's now up to us to maintain it?

Tell me, how long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?

A second?

A minute?

An hour, a day, a week, a month?

And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?

If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?

Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?

What if a Christian dies an alcoholic? Or a drug addict? How about if he dies as a gossiper, or a liar? What happens to the Christian who died lusting after women?

If you are correct, then grace is not unmerited, and salvation is a gift with strings attached, which negates it as a gift entirely.
I always thought you lost faith because people fail you, or people were not who you thought they were,

When does jesus fail-us so much we lose faith?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Oh for goodness sakes MMD....
Who cares what the Greek word is...
It doesn't change what Jesus was saying...


Luke 8:13
JESUS SAID they BELIEVED for a while and THEN FELL AWAY.

BELIEVE means something.
Acts 13:30-31
30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”



You cannot have it both ways:

1. I hear on this thread that ALL one has to do to be saved is to BELIEVE and he will be saved.
NOTHING else required.

2. Then when it SUITS YOU, I hear that BELIEVE doesn't really mean believe because of the Greek.

HOWEVER,
NONE on your side of the fence...like to post what BELIEVE means in the Greek because it would go against your grain.

Make up your mind MMD.
What does BELIEVE mean....
yea, what does language matter? what do word definitions matter?

just make the words mean what you want them, and then, even better, since you just make up your own meanings, you can change them, redirect and apply them however you want. after all, you are making up what the words mean.



I see why you defend your beliefs so strongly. it is your own personal creation, devoid of facts.
 
Feb 13, 2019
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He did not like it when i called him out for saying you implied something i knew you never would say. He is still trying to,defend himself instead of just admit he made a mistake, that about says it all.
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID THEY WILL NOT ENTER IN. :) I TOLD YOU I AM RIGHT; I HAVE YOUR OWN WORDS IN THE QUOTE BELOW TO PROVE IT.
I see now, yes i agree with you, anyone who trusts in a false gospel (a different gospel) according to gal 1 will not enter in. Amen sis.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Does God allow a heretic into heaven?
Okay. Since it's obvious you are a Roman Catholic, the Catholic church teaches if one believes we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, they are a heretic. So, by that definition verses the biblical definition of a believer, YES, there will be lots of "heretics" in heaven.
 
Feb 13, 2019
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Okay. Since it's obvious you are a Roman Catholic, the Catholic church teaches if one believes we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, they are a heretic. So, by that definition verses the biblical definition of a believer, YES, there will be lots of "heretics" in heaven.
Do you really want to exist with the heretics for all eternity?