Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
If you can't even get the basic gospel tenet of justification right, why in the world would I sit under any of your other teaching?
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood. I thought I read in a prior post that you said how unbelievably great it was that I was a pastor.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You disagree with Scripture, and many of those who uphold it.
Good morning M,
The above statement was in response to my stating that salvation is earned and is not a gift.

I've stated this before and will do so again....

Salvation is a free.
It cannot be earned.
Ephesians 2:8-9
It is earned by grace through faith.
Siince our faith is a gift,,,salvation is also a gift because it comes from faith.

This is called Justification.

The problem I have with this thread is that there is no distinction made between
Justification
Sanctification

Sanctification IS EARNED.

It's a cooperative effort between man and God. Jesus did His part on the cross, now it's up to us to do our part.
Jesus said:

Mathew 16:24
Discipleship Is Costly

24Then Jesus said to His disciples
, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Jesus said the gate is narrow exactly because being a disciple is costly....the wide road is easy.
Many here say they are following Jesus and yet they seem to state that it's OK to be on the wide road simply by not agreeing.

You said it's easy to say Jesus is God....
Shouldn't it be as easy to say Jesus is to be obeyed?
It's the same.


If we want to say we have a relationship with God,,,then we must also accept our part.
It takes two person to create a relationship.....not one walking alone. It's you and Jesus walking together.



John 12:48 Jesus said:
48
“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

1. We must accept Jesus as Savior and not reject Him.
2. We must receive His sayings.
3. His word is what will judge us in the last day. (whether or not we obeyed Him).
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,165
5,550
113
In their flesh, they fully can't. Which is why a Christian's destiny is determined by the new nature in Christ.



Read Romans 8.



We have been made righteous (Romans 5:1). We don't have a righteousness of our own via the flesh. Our prayers are effective due to our new nature.



I'll answer that question with a question: Is all sin, past, present, and future, already completely forgiven?
I think I smell a Peter Jens reemergence.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I would not call saying " I don't care about the greek language " sarcasm.

I call that a statement. ( probably one you were hoping would be forgotten ).
No gb9.
I don't hope anything I say will be forgotten.

I said:

When we all have PhD's after our names,,,we could begin to discuss the N.T. using the Greek.
Untill then...it's pretty useless except in maybe 2 or 3 cases.

People just use the Greek to TRY to convince others of how smart they are.

Speak of pride...
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
BTW
When do you discern Jesus became fully God and fuly man on earth? From birth, or at his baptism? Only if Jesus was fully God and fully man from birth, he would alre
the Bible is about 1 thing- the Lord Jesus Christ.

since you do not think Jesus was fully God on earth, then your opinions are irrelevant.
The people who want to discuss trinity so much are always the immature in the faith, seen it over years on debating websites. Those who are more mature, and have discernment tend not to discuss it. Neither you, mailmandan, vco, nor anyone else I have placed on ignore(I checked) could answer those two simple questions yesterday could you. How do you expect to understand trinity if you cannot answer such simple questions?
So lets see. I told someone yesterday the Holy Spirit fully resides in Christ, or we can say, the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Christ. That is what you believe isn't it. So we both agree as to the essence of Christ. Now if the person I told that to had discernment, they would have been content with it, but alas. However, I will go the extra mile for you this once. As you have read the bible for 18 years you know the Holy Spirit descended on Christ in bodily form/shape at his baptism. So, we can say the fullness of the diety was in Christ during his earthly ministry, or God was fully in Christ during his earthly ministry. So we both agree as to the essence of Christ, now in heaven and when he walked this earth don't we. That leaves his title. So in your view, after reading the bible for 18 years and with the discernment you have, if someone agrees with you as to the essence of Christ, what title must they give him to be in a saved state according to what is written all over the new testament?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Then it's not a gift at all, and grace is not unmerited.
A gift is something freely given by one party to another. The gift element is the part that is not earnt or expected.
But this does not mean the gift itself does not have obligations and effort involved with it.

Parents give to their children gifts of education courses, adventures, tickets to travel etc.
This does not mean the children can do what they like, but rather an opportunity is provided which otherwise would
not be there.

Somehow in your thinking you have said these realities regarding a gift invalidate its reality.

If I was given a parachute jump gift, and then refused to jump, am I accepting the gift or if I complain its not a gift
because I do not want to jump out of a plane, am I being reasonable?

We are disqualified to be with God. But He has opened the door if we are prepared to accept the conditions.

There are those who believe all will eventually go to heaven, they just need enough opportunities.
Even this is a conditional gift, based on taking the opportunity.

If you opened the door, and all were forced in, that is an unconditional gift, given to all. Gods unconditional gift
to man is life, the breathing and experience we have every day.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,807
473
83
Wow. I must have it all twisted. You're doing " the tree by its fruit" thing huh?
I thought the separation was our proclamation that "CHRIST IS KING!"
So I guess you could pull out the big and easy judgement card if I told you I struggled with drug abuse and still believed and loved the Lord with all my heart?
What do you have to say about that?
I assume only because it was that way with me that it's those exact petty judgements of outward perfection that turn people away from that "Christ stuff"
I went through the same thing with drugs.

Backslidden in every way, yet still believed with all my heart.


The problem is, loving the Lord is defined for us, in the scriptures. Our circumstances or failures don’t change the truth of the scriptures.

God loves us no matter how we feel or act, and is ready with open arms to welcome us back... if we repent.


The prodigal son as well as the parable of the lost sheep is clear about this.


If we wander away from Him and become lost, He is waiting for the day we we return to Him in repentance. All heaven will rejoice in that day.


Never the less, the other side of the proverbial coin is, we must choose to repent, and return or remain lost.

God will not force us to repent.





JPT
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,357
113
We overcome the world spirit, our own flesh, and the devil. How? By the blood of the Lamb and the Word of testimony. Whatever comes our way in life, we trust (obey) what He says.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
I have to be honest here...
I could not careless where I was , what thread I was on , I would be willing to shout from the rooftops that JESUS IS GOD :)...
There are many things in here that have been spoken off , even some have derailed the thread , but no one would ever mind proclaiming Jesus as God , it is a beautiful thing to claim...xox...
You are a sincere Christian rosemary, it is wonderfull to meet you here
God bless
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,357
113
No gb9.
I don't hope anything I say will be forgotten.

I said:

When we all have PhD's after our names,,,we could begin to discuss the N.T. using the Greek.
Untill then...it's pretty useless except in maybe 2 or 3 cases.

People just use the Greek to TRY to convince others of how smart they are.

Speak of pride...
Fran...the above vitriol is ignorant....we use GREEK because that is what the N.T. was inspired in and it is absolutely ignorant to say what you said which judges motive.....YOU have no ability to make that call.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
If i saw myself acting like a proud hypocrite, i would be horrified

But thats right, you people think you do no wrong.
Who is YOU PEOPLE?
I thought we all belonged to the same Church...or Body of Christ.

And who is a hypocrite?

Those that say they are saved but it's not necessary to obey God...
John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”


Or those who are saying to obey God and are doing their best to do so?
Mathew 13:25

For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

A hypocrite is simply a person that says one thing and does another.
Claims that he says to obey God...but then fights it all the way.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Fran...the above vitriol is ignorant....we use GREEK because that is what the N.T. was inspired in and it is absolutely ignorant to say what you said which judges motive.....YOU have no ability to make that call.
I can make whatever call I want to.
YOU have doctrine wrong...
And you tell me I don't have the right to state what I believe about Greek?

So what do the persons who don't know Greek do?
Just give up and listen to YOU?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
He has, when is he going to earn yours?


I know, so when are you going to accept this fact and repent?



Yet your the one who says god will or may not be able to keep his promise, and he may have to take back his ETERNAL life, or saved people he KNEW would rebel, and KNEW would fall away forcing him to take back his GIFT.
God keeps HIS promises...
The problem, my dear friend, is that YOU may not.

And please stop speaking to me in very personal terms.


Maybe we could discuss YOUR sin life?
Yes. Let's do that.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,165
5,550
113
BTW
When do you discern Jesus became fully God and fuly man on earth? From birth, or at his baptism? Only if Jesus was fully God and fully man from birth, he would alre

The people who want to discuss trinity so much are always the immature in the faith, seen it over years on debating websites. Those who are more mature, and have discernment tend not to discuss it. Neither you, mailmandan, vco, nor anyone else I have placed on ignore(I checked) could answer those two simple questions yesterday could you. How do you expect to understand trinity if you cannot answer such simple questions?
So lets see. I told someone yesterday the Holy Spirit fully resides in Christ, or we can say, the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Christ. That is what you believe isn't it. So we both agree as to the essence of Christ. Now if the person I told that to had discernment, they would have been content with it, but alas. However, I will go the extra mile for you this once. As you have read the bible for 18 years you know the Holy Spirit descended on Christ in bodily form/shape at his baptism. So, we can say the fullness of the diety was in Christ during his earthly ministry, or God was fully in Christ during his earthly ministry. So we both agree as to the essence of Christ, now in heaven and when he walked this earth don't we. That leaves his title. So in your view, after reading the bible for 18 years and with the discernment you have, if someone agrees with you as to the essence of Christ, what title must they give him to be in a saved state according to what is written all over the new testament?
Completely disregarded the fact that Mary conceived through the Holy Spirit, and one of His 1st names was Emmanuel, GOD WITH US.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
No. My "obsession" is with hypocrites like you. You and yours love to point to behavior as "proof" one is saved, and yet your own behavior is just as deplorable as all the rest.
So in your view John was a hypocrite, as he said behaviour shows we know God or we do not.

But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:5-6

So if we do not walk as Jesus did, we do not know God.

I hope you see John is showing there is an impossible to break link between knowing God and behaviour.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,357
113
I can make whatever call I want to.
YOU have doctrine wrong...
And you tell me I don't have the right to state what I believe about Greek?

So what do the persons who don't know Greek do?
Just give up and listen to YOU?
You judged motive FRAN.....you cannot see the heart of any man and to judge motive = wrong...and no...our doctrine is good......your's on the other hand........not so much because your root is corrupt......faith plus anything = false
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
Completely disregarded the fact that Mary conceived through the Holy Spirit, and one of His 1st names was Emmanuel, GOD WITH US.
Another will little maturity. Tell me, in your view, will a person stand condemned on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth?

And why did you not answer the question? Do I have to assume you do not know the answer?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You judged motive FRAN.....you cannot see the heart of any man and to judge motive = wrong...and no...our doctrine is good......your's on the other hand........not so much because your root is corrupt......faith plus anything = false
If you have only faith....
you're missing love and hope.

Paul said you need all three.
Especially love,,without which we are but a clanging bell.