Not By Works

[Goodnewsman]

W

The real question is: what is jaywalking? The street sign looks like regular walking to me.

is regular walking forbidden in America? lol.

Second of all @Goodnewsman I would contend that even IF Judas cast out devils with Jesus' name DOESNT MAKE HIM SAVED.

Have you read Matthew 7:21-23? It says just that. DID WE NOT in your name do this and that, and it includes cast out devils. Yet Jesus never knew them.

This is how certain heretical groups today lure people in. By signs and wonders, they might be all off on doctrine and contradict the Bible left and right but it doesnt matter because: "Would God move here like this, if we were so disobedient" "dont put God in a box" and all the rest of it! Yes devils can be cast out left and right and the people doing it still wont be saved. Its clear in Matthew 7:21-23.

PS: God has already put Himself in a box in the sense that He has said what He will do, and wont do, and He cant lie! so there is that!

Was Judas born a devil?

When his mother cooked his fevered brow and kissed him as a baby....was he a devil?

When he ran and played with other kids in the yard....was he a a devil?

No more than you and I......

I agree Jesus called Judas knowing what he would do, but please tell me, did God force Judas to betray? Or was it Satan who tempted him?

Just as God calls people today that he can see down the road will betray him yet his Mercy still reaches for them

Jesus looked at Peter and said "get behind me Satan, thou savorest not the things which be of God"

As far as your argument that you compare Judas to those in Matthew saying did we not........this is a nonsensical argument. The big difference was Jesus called Judas and ordained him an apostle..... empowered him to preach the gospel
Jesus would not be able to say to Judas in judgement "I never knew you'

 

[FollowHisSteps]

STOP SAYING THAT!

You DO NOT believe in eternal security. You believe in CONDITIONAL security! You believe you have to maintain it by your own works and/or believing!

Eternal security is what I believe. I believe that eternal life is everlasting, and i got the greek on my side on this one! Once you place your faith in Jesus Christ(alone), you are justified in the eyes of God. Then God works in you and justifies you, the Holy Spirit brings forth fruit in due time, sometimes more sometimes less....

IF YOU CAN LOSE ETERNAL LIFE, IT WAS NOT ETERNAL! This is a simple point, but i feel its overlooked in this discussion forum! If I tell you this is enough oil to last a lifetime, then it stops next week, I LIED to you!

I love my wife, I am secure in her love. We have promised this love to the day we die.

But it is also conditional on faithfulness, which is part of the promise.
Jesus gives us no different a promise and we to Him. We are His bride.
And as His bride we have eternal security.

Now if one has thought in one way all ones life in the faith, it can be hard to realise that
the assumptions we made are actually bigger and more wonderful.

God trusts us to stay faithful. He trusts us to worship, love and adore Him.
He gives us His authority and power to spread His word to others.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Thats not the doctrine of eternal security! Thats conditional security! Thats one of the tenets of arminianism! The final point! You should know that since you said you were a catholic.

Even if you live WELL you still wont make it to heaven without purgatory! Go follow the Pope on twitter now to reduce your time in purgatory!

You can believe security is eternal for as long as you believe in Jesus.
If that's too much for you to accept...then the conversation ends here.

I have no problem loving and accepting Jesus.
I accept ALL that He said,,,not just the parts I like or seem to be easy.
He died so I could understand about belonging to the Kingdom of God...both in heaven and here on earth.

I take this very seriously.
To some it's just modern talk.
If believing in Jesus as Lord is too much for you,,,,
one does have to question if he truly has the Holy Spirit dwelling within him.

If it's so easy to put down other believers and call them names...
one does have to question if they have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.

Galatians 5:22-25
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

 

[AgapeShellArt]

A bit pedantic I know but it's actually

Put your money where your mouth is

Is that related to the phrase...your heart is where your treasure is, so store up treasures in heaven?

I wonder what people value.

 

[gb9]

PART 2 OF 2


A1. Disobedience, Disobedient [Noun] apeitheia lit., "the condition of being unpersuadable" (a, negative, peitho, "to persuade"), denotes "obstinacy, obstinate rejection of the will of God;" hence, "disobedience;" Eph 2:2; Eph 5:6; Col 3:6, and in the RV of Rom 11:30,32 and Heb 4:6,11 (for AV, "unbelief"), speaking of Israel, past and present. See UNBELIEF.

A2. Disobedience, Disobedient [Noun] parakoe primarily, "hearing amiss" (para, "aside," akouo, "to hear"), hence signifies "a refusal to hear;" hence, "an act of disobedience," Rom 5:19; 2 Cor 10:6;Heb 2:2. It is broadly to be distinguished from apeitheia, as an act from a condition, though parakoe itself is the effect, in transgression, of the condition of failing or refusing to hear. Carelessness in attitude is the precursor of actual "disobedience." In the OT "disobedience" is frequently described as "a refusing to hear," e.g., Jer 11:10; Jer 35:17; cp. Acts 7:57. See Trench, Syn. xvi.

B1. Disobedience, Disobedient [Adjective] apeithes akin to apeitheia, signifies "unwilling to be persuaded, spurning belief, disobedient," Luke 1:17; Acts 26:19; Rom 1:30; 2 Tim 3:2; Titus 1:16;Titus 3:3.

Note: In 1 Tim 1:9 anupotaktos, "insubordinate, unsubjected" (a, negative, n, euphonic, hupo, "under," tasso, "to order"), is translated "disobedient" in the AV; the RV has "unruly," as in Titus 1:6,10; in Heb 2:8, "not subject" (RV), "not put under" (AV). See PUT, UNRULY.

C1. Disobedience, Disobedient [Verb] apeitheo akin to apeitheia, and apeithes, "to refuse to be persuaded, to refuse belief, to be disobedient," is translated "disobedient," or by the verb "to be disobedient," in the RV of Acts 14:2 (AV, "unbelieving"), and Acts 19:9 (AV, "believed not"); it is absent from the most authentic mss. in Acts 17:5; in John 3:36 "obeyeth not," RV (AV, "believeth not"); in Rom 2:8 "obey not;" in Rom 10:21, "disobedient;" in Rom 11:30,31, "were disobedient" (AV, "have not believed"); so in Rom 15:31; Heb 3:18; Heb 11:31; in 1 Pet 2:8, "disobedient;" so in 1 Pet 3:20; in 1 Pet 3:1; 1 Pet 4:17, "obey not." In 1 Pet 2:7 the best mss. have apisteo, "to disbelieve." See apeitheounder OBEY, UNBELIEVING.

all these definitions you just posted point to belief meaning what the language says-belief is a mental activity.

and, I am not being mean to you, I am pointing out , over and over , that salvation is not of ourself, it is a gift of God.

I know this is hard to accept, to take your eternal destiny and place it 100% in someone else's hands.

that is why it is called the narrow way. many are called , few are chosen.

it goes against human logic, but that is the point. we have abandon our thinking when it comes to salvation , and see it God's way.

 

[Hevosmies]

W


Was Judas born a devil?

When his mother cooked his fevered brow and kissed him as a baby....was he a devil?


No more than you and I......

I agree Jesus called Judas knowing what he would do, but please tell me, did God force Judas to betray? Or was it Satan who tempted him?

Just as God calls people today that he can see down the road will betray him yet his Mercy still reaches for them

Jesus looked at Peter and said "get behind me Satan, thou savorest not the things which be of God"

As far as your argument that you compare Judas to those in Matthew saying did we not........this is a nonsensical argument. The big difference was Jesus called Judas and ordained him an apostle..... empowered him to preach the gospel
Jesus would not be able to say to Judas in judgement "I never knew you'

Yes he was. i believe in PREDESTINATION. You will never catch me slippin with that argument that people just get saved and then choose to be unsaved later on.

Jesus said that Judas was there precisely so that SCRIPTURE might be fulfilled. It wasnt a freak accident!

I am afraid to ask, but DO YOU believe in sin nature? Do you believe in original sin? Because if you do, these are ODD questions to ask! Everyone thats born into this world is by DEFAULT an enemy of God!

You dont have to live long, before you see a lie, before you tell a lie. Parents ask "Did you do it?" they say "no!" while they did, thats a lie already.

Did God FORCE Judas to betray Jesus? This is a trick question! I have gotten used to these. God doesnt have to FORCE anyone to sin, we are already sinful, and the man thats not born again LOVES his sin. Therefore, Judas betrayed Jesus completely willingly, out of his deceitful heart full of theft and wickedness. Satan entered Judas, and yes this was with God's permission, so that the scriptures may be fulfilled. Call me crazy? Read Revelation 17:17!

 

[BillG]

Is that related to the phrase...your heart is where your treasure is, so store up treasures in heaven?

I wonder what people value.

Not over here, no.

to show by your actions and not just your words that you support or believe in something

 

[AgapeShellArt]

I love my wife, I am secure in her love. We have promised this love to the day we die.

But it is also conditional on faithfulness, which is part of the promise.
Jesus gives us no different a promise and we to Him. We are His bride.
And as His bride we have eternal security.

Now if one has thought in one way all ones life in the faith, it can be hard to realise that
the assumptions we made are actually bigger and more wonderful.

God trusts us to stay faithful. He trusts us to worship, love and adore Him.
He gives us His authority and power to spread His word to others.

Even when we are faithless God is faithful.

God doesn't give up on us and will chastened all His children when they go astray. He doesn't divorce us or disown us.

God's agape love is more than earthly love.

Eternal can not be conditional.

Agape is unconditional, unmerited love that God gives us.

 

[Chester]

Amen brother!

If only we could start using correct language, I do believe there would be less arguing.
I wrote a post on it that you probably missed.
It's no. 86,226

It's in my own words.
OSAS is not biblically correct.
Eternal Salvation is. ( I think what you and I believe)
And Pres. of the Saints is a whole different topic.

Dear sister,

I went back and read your post 86226. You divide the three beliefs into three neat sounding branches. It may be so sometime historically or maybe it is so where you live, I don't know.

But where I live the way you define the three terms is not at all their meaning. I am not disagreeing with your theology, or maybe even with maybe the historical accuracy of what you say. Just know that you will not change the way the terms are used here on CC. You will just make people mad if you say you believe in eternal security, and then change the definition they are used to.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The Greek word "to believe" does not mean "obey". To make a simple statement such as in Greek "believe" means to "obey" is not correct. Translating from Greek to English is not as simple as giving a one word correspondence. Every Greek word must be studied in its grammatical meaning, and in the context to determine meaning. (By the way, I have studied and taught Greek for25 years)

Now, having said that I think I may pretty much agree with what you are trying to say about believing. The problem is that the Greek word "pisteuo" (to believe) is used in many different ways and contexts in the New Testament. I think I agree with you that the way the word is used shows that when a person really believes the gospel from the heart that obedience/works will follow. True faith and true obedience should not be seen as two separate packages.

If you've taught Greek then you know that
UNBELIEF means DISOBEY.

So the opposite can also be said to be true.

I'm not one to "go to the greek". I never studied it and I don't know why anyone on these forums, unless they have your expertise, would care to use the Greek.

I believe I can safely say that within the word BELIEVE is the idea of obedience.
If we trust someone, we obey them.
If we want to follow someone, we obey what they teach us.
If we believe we want to be a disciple.

As you very well know....believe in greek means much more than just a head belief and even more than a heart belief. It encompasses a whole idea which does include obedience.

 

[AgapeShellArt]

Not over here, no.

to show by your actions and not just your words that you support or believe in something

Lol I was joking, but thanks for the explanation. It made me smile.

 

[BillG]

Lol I was joking, but thanks for the explanation. It made me smile.

Sorry didn't realise.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Even when we are faithless God is faithful.

God doesn't give up on us and will chastened all His children when they go astray. He doesn't divorce us or disown us.

God's agape love is more than earthly love.

Eternal can not be conditional.

Agape is unconditional, unmerited love that God gives us.

Could you PLEASE supply some scripture for the above?

Does God agape love a murderer?

Scripture please.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Thats not the doctrine of eternal security! Thats conditional security! Thats one of the tenets of arminianism! The final point! You should know that since you said you were a catholic.

Even if you live WELL you still wont make it to heaven without purgatory! Go follow the Pope on twitter now to reduce your time in purgatory!

My friend,
Our mutual sister in Christ is no longer a catholic and left the church.
This is a simple fact, testified to and shared. So why do you want to suggest it is not true?

It simply does not help discussion when simple facts are miss-used when talking about
eternal significant issues.

 

[AgapeShellArt]

Could you PLEASE supply some scripture for the above?

Does God agape love a murderer?

Scripture please.

Yes he loves and is able to forgive murderers too. Give me a moment and I will give the scriptures

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yes he was. i believe in PREDESTINATION. You will never catch me slippin with that argument that people just get saved and then choose to be unsaved later on.

Jesus said that Judas was there precisely so that SCRIPTURE might be fulfilled. It wasnt a freak accident!

I am afraid to ask, but DO YOU believe in sin nature? Do you believe in original sin? Because if you do, these are ODD questions to ask! Everyone thats born into this world is by DEFAULT an enemy of God!

You dont have to live long, before you see a lie, before you tell a lie. Parents ask "Did you do it?" they say "no!" while they did, thats a lie already.

Did God FORCE Judas to betray Jesus? This is a trick question! I have gotten used to these. God doesnt have to FORCE anyone to sin, we are already sinful, and the man thats not born again LOVES his sin. Therefore, Judas betrayed Jesus completely willingly, out of his deceitful heart full of theft and wickedness. Satan entered Judas, and yes this was with God's permission, so that the scriptures may be fulfilled. Call me crazy? Read Revelation 17:17!

Being what your theology is..
You've never dealt with the question of God's sovereignty and your libertarian free will.

Maybe one day you will.
Maybe you won't.
Just make sure you know you're saved and stay that way.

 

[Hevosmies]

My friend,
Our mutual sister in Christ is no longer a catholic and left the church.
This is a simple fact, testified to and shared. So why do you want to suggest it is not true?

It simply does not help discussion when simple facts are miss-used when talking about
eternal significant issues.

Did you read what i said "WERE a catholic" past tense! I didnt say she was currently. Although in doctrine she might as well have never left! Still on the wrong side of the reformation!

 

[BillG]

Does God agape love a murderer?

God's Agape loves all sinners.
That's why Jesus died for all sinners.

Would you not say so?

 

[Hevosmies]

Being what your theology is..
You've never dealt with the question of God's sovereignty and your libertarian free will.

Maybe one day you will.
Maybe you won't.
Just make sure you know you're saved and stay that way.

I have dealt with it. Here is how I deal with it: I dont believe in libertarian free will. Poof problem gone lol

I do believe God is sovereign.

 

[AgapeShellArt]

2 Timothy 2:13 ►
SUM PIC XRF DEV STU
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

New Living Translation
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.

English Standard Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.

Berean Study Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Berean Literal Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He is not able to deny Himself.