Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Does God's love extend to liars? How about blasphemers? Thieves? Fornicators?
A single sin will send you to hell. Be it murder, or telling a lie.
Even one who hates. The Bible says it's the same as murder.
If God's love is extended to liars, it's extended to murderers as well.
Are we talking the whole worlds sin is forgiven, even while they are sinning theology here?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,014
4,430
113
Im sure You have had to add that line throughout your Bible "NOT FROM SALVATION". cause just to be fair to our readers the Bible didn't say that you added it
I'm trying to follow all the conversations about Judas.

Do you believe Judas was saved before he committed suicide?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
Are we talking the whole worlds sin is forgiven, even while they are sinning theology here?
I was pointing out the fact she was singling out the sin of murder. Yet, even telling a single lie will earn you hell. But if God loves liars enough to save them, He also loves murderers enough to save them as well. His love is extended to all who will repent and call out to Jesus in faith for salvation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,774
29,148
113
I do not reject that......only that Judas didn't start out that way......Acts 1 is plain "Judas by transgression fell"

Judas was tempted to sin and betray. The same as you and I????
Your premise is that Judas was saved and lost his salvation but that goes against the very words of Jesus Christ.
 
May 20, 2018
225
117
43
Ohio
Remember (especially if you believe posting what you believe is the truth in the word of God is a "good work")
If it doesn't stem from the love of God in your heart, you can just toss what ever it is on that big pile of insignificant and useless large pile of missing socks some where out there in the universe.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
What you said about me was not accurate at all. The reason I focus on the sin issue is so as to turn it around on those who throw the sins of others in their faces, while sinning the same as everyone else. Self-righteous hypocrites bug me to no end.
Sorry Bud, but by your own confession you sin daily and can do zero about it.
Have you not gone to counselling or resolution therapy about the abuse you are inflicting on others?
Or is your sin only internal to do with yourself?

I am confused, because if the above is not true, what sinful behaviour are you talking about as defined
in scripture? Or is it as someone laid out, not giving in to others requests for your time and involvement?

OCD behaviour does lock people in to behaviour patterns that are unhealthy but they are not sinful.

When you then take your issues and project them on to others that is not Godly or right, but actual lies
and slander without justification. If you became specific with individuals you could be sued for defamation
of character. So I wonder how serious you understand your concepts actually are.

Which of the ten commandments am I breaking daily, and how do you know?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
I was pointing out the fact she was singling out the sin of murder. Yet, even telling a single lie will earn you hell. But if God loves liars enough to save them, He also loves murderers enough to save them as well. His love is extended to all who will repent and call out to Jesus in faith for salvation.
God saves all who call on Him, through Jesus and the cross, in repentance and faith.

But He has not saved the world, though His desire is they turn to Him, He declares they will not.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Has she ever admitted to this contradiction sh has made, she would not when i pointed them out, maybe you had better luck? I am back where i can not see her posts.
Not yet.........and probably not.....just explain it a way...she accused me of being dishonest.....
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
Only by calvinists.

I never heard it until i came in CC.

To most people, it is just a works gospel

The calvinist arminian argument is what causes the most issues in here, because instead of trying to understand what others are saying, they look at it from a calvin or arminain view and attack it because they are attacking each other

Osas is an example. Alot of people think osas is calvinist, so they attack it because they hate calvinism, instead finding out why people believe in eternal security,

It gets frustrating when people do that, thats why i try to divert it from a calvin vs arminian argument and to a bible discussion minus certain biases
Alright.

Im sorry bro, i will try to keep that in mind going forward. After all, this is NOT a arminian/calvinist thread, but a 'Not by works' thread!

I APOLOGIZE!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
Sorry Bud, but by your own confession you sin daily and can do zero about it.
Let me know when you make it a single day without committing a single sin in thought, word, or deed.

Have you not gone to counselling or resolution therapy about the abuse you are inflicting on others?
Telling them the truth that they will continue to sin until they leave this earth is abuse to you?

Should they face the truth or bury their heads in the sand and say "nyah, nyah, nyahhh"?

When you then take your issues and project them on to others that is not Godly or right, but actual lies and slander without justification. If you became specific with individuals you could be sued for defamation of character. So I wonder how serious you understand your concepts actually are.
They're not my "issues" it's biblical truth. So, if anyone wants to sue me for saying they still sin - they can knock themselves out.

Which of the ten commandments am I breaking daily, and how do you know?
The Bible says if you say you are without sin you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you.

But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with this question:

Do you still sin? ;)
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
What I find Ludacris is the first part of your statement!

To think that the only difference between Peter and Judas was Jesus prayed for Peter but refused to pray for Judas

The Bible says that Jesus prayed often he was a man of Prayer and of course the Bible does not record everything Jesus said when he prayed every prayer .Judas was one of his ordained apostles and Jesus was his friend and you're going to tell me Jesus did not pray for his friend ever???? No way Jose I'm not buying it

The difference between Judas and Peter was Peter repented and ran to the Lord......... Judas on the other hand felt so guilty no doubt his heart condemning him and the devil lying to him telling him there's no way back so he killed his self

I promise you this the sins of Peter are far worse than those of Judas

BTW. Im not mocking you as you suggested
i didnt suggest the mocking part, it was someone else. btw

And sins of Peter are far worse than those of Judas? WHAT??? now thats a statement. Oy vey!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
God saves all who call on Him, through Jesus and the cross, in repentance and faith.

But He has not saved the world, though His desire is they turn to Him, He declares they will not.
I agree a pardon is only as good as it's acceptance.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
this is a serious topic.
The sealing refers to baptism.

I'm not getting into this with those who can't have a serious conversation.

You don't know me well enough by now to know that I post what supports MY point of view?
Too bad....I thought you did.
it says sealed with the Holy Spirit. Where'd you get baptism itno that? Even if it is baptism, it still says ................. to the day of redemption!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,014
4,430
113
Are we talking the whole worlds sin is forgiven, even while they are sinning theology here?
Are you thinking Budman is a universalist?

To me the whole worlds sins are forgiven.

John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

However the propriation for forgiveness is not granted to those who do not believe on Jesus.

Believers are not condemned and believers seek to be like Jesus.
This does not just mean sin management should be the main focus.
The main focus is the cross and what he accomplished for us.
Jesus said that he must go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin.

And he said that sin is unbelief in him.

That does not give a license to sin, and we know Paul addressed that.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,277
6,653
113
Sorry Bud, but by your own confession you sin daily and can do zero about it.
Have you not gone to counselling or resolution therapy about the abuse you are inflicting on others?
Or is your sin only internal to do with yourself?

I am confused, because if the above is not true, what sinful behaviour are you talking about as defined
in scripture? Or is it as someone laid out, not giving in to others requests for your time and involvement?

OCD behaviour does lock people in to behaviour patterns that are unhealthy but they are not sinful.

When you then take your issues and project them on to others that is not Godly or right, but actual lies
and slander without justification. If you became specific with individuals you could be sued for defamation
of character. So I wonder how serious you understand your concepts actually are.

Which of the ten commandments am I breaking daily, and how do you know?
this is where people get messed up - sin is not mere command breaking.

sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard , knowing to do good and not doing so, whatever is not of faith is sin.
very important to define sin correctly before stating you do not do it daily.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Have you ever deceived our savior, lie to him, or betrayed him? Should I be sympathetic toward you,?

Again Judas did not start out in the ministry As a thief.... He was called by God chosen by God ordained by God to be an apostle and preached the gospel Mark 3

Did Jesus give Judas a false anointing to preach the gospel in Mark 3? Of course not he was a friend to Judas and the Bible said a friend loveth at all times

My point is this Jesus did not set Judas up for failure. Judas was tempted just like you and gave in to that temptation just like you and I

Does the bible not say it is not the will of God that any man should perish?

It was not the will of God that Judas go to hell. Judas is in hell today because he chose to go there

You know what is funny or pathetic you guys are willing to dismiss everybodys sin who calls himself a Christian except for Judas and I know why because Judas Totally destroys your Doctrine

It has been said on thread that even a reprobate could still go to heaven

I have been told that a man can go to heaven and NOT EVEN LOVE GOD

BUT JUDAS WAS BORN A DEVIL AND HAD NO CHANCE OF SALVATION

Using your own logic let me ask you, if you ever commit the sin Judas committed can't we write you off and call you an unsaved devil who will go to hell?.......... Wait...... No you couldn't do that because that too would mess up your Doctrine as well
You are the most anti-biblical preacher I have ever seen

THE WICKED GO ASTRAY FROM THE WOMB
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Maybe there are actually more than two groups here.
I was approximating.
And some definitely deny they could ever walk like Jesus or even aspire to it.
A simple test is can you be 24hrs without sinning. Those that say no, do not
believe Jesus transforms them into His likeness in this world.

A few days ago such a point was discussed.:)
Do you really believe not sinning is what John mean't by walking as He walked? Not that I'm saying Jesus sinned. Covering bases I hope.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
What I find Ludacris is the first part of your statement!

To think that the only difference between Peter and Judas was Jesus prayed for Peter but refused to pray for Judas

The Bible says that Jesus prayed often he was a man of Prayer and of course the Bible does not record everything Jesus said when he prayed every prayer .Judas was one of his ordained apostles and Jesus was his friend and you're going to tell me Jesus did not pray for his friend ever???? No way Jose I'm not buying it

The difference between Judas and Peter was Peter repented and ran to the Lord......... Judas on the other hand felt so guilty no doubt his heart condemning him and the devil lying to him telling him there's no way back so he killed his self

I promise you this the sins of Peter are far worse than those of Judas

BTW. Im not mocking you as you suggested
The bolded has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen come from one that claims to be a preacher and know the truth......