Not By Works

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Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
But I am afraid that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure DEVOTION TO CHRIST. (see john 14:15-24 & luke 6:46) 2 Corinthians 11:3

Why do you think that BELIEVERS were warned not to be DECEIVED?

...He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who HEARS THE WORD and at once RECEIVES IT with joy. But since he has NO ROOT, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly FALLS AWAY. The one who RECEIVED THE SEED that fell among the thorns is the man who HEARS THE WORD, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it UNFRUITFUL. But the one who RECEIVED THE SEED that fell on good soil is the man who HEARS THE WORD and UNDERSTANDS IT. He PRODUCES A CROP, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

The Parable of the Weeds
...Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in HIS FIELD. But while everyone was sleeping, HIS ENEMY came and SOWED WEEDS AMONG THE WHEATS, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. LET BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” Matthew 13:11-30

Both the weeds and wheat grow in the same FIELD.

...The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and THEY WILL WEED OUT OF HIS KINGDOM everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 13:38-43

Who will the angels WEED OUT of GOD'S KINGDOM? Aren't they supposed to belong to GOD'S kingdom first before they can be weeded out of it?

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL APPEAR AND DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,(becoming DISOBEDIENT, because LOVE IS WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS) but he who STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:10-14

....“I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:1-3

The church is the BODY OF CHRIST whom He will SAVE. Ephesians 5:23 WEEDED OUT OF every wickedness

So to those who reject and nullify God's word and refuse to take heed of God's warnings about the appearance of the DECEIVER with his FALSE CHRISTS, PROPHETS AND .TEACHERS, the LIARS who do not have the TRUTH in them...DO NOT BE ARROGANT BUT BE AFRAID… For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. Romans 11:21-22 ...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.” Luke 3:7-9
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
113
Was all in the world ever born, raised up with Jesus when Holy Spirit brought Him back to life? Potentially all is saved until death either seperates or unites? For that is how I read these scriptures.


Eph 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love for us

Eph 2:5  even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:6  raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly realm in the Messiah Jesus,

Eph 2:7  so that in the coming ages he might display the limitless riches of his grace that comes to us through his kindness in the Messiah Jesus.

Eph 2:8  For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

Eph 2:9  and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.

Am thinking of a picture of salvation similar to an unfertilized egg. All have the egg, but the seed needs to be planted to cause fruit. The seed being the Spirit of Christ.

Is this universalism? Hope not.

But, it would explain Jesus being the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe.

Am I wrong in my thoughts?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,243
2,401
113
Did anyone ever notice all the ex-military guys are eternal security?
same applies to horsemen!

I find that odd, you would consider the military mindset would be to make salvation as hard as possible.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,101
113
Did anyone ever notice all the ex-military guys are eternal security?
same applies to horsemen!

I find that odd, you would consider the military mindset would be to make salvation as hard as possible.
Funny you say that....remember the Roman soldier that had a servant sick..he told JESUS you do not need to come under my roof for I am not worthy, but if you but speak the word............JESUS said....I have NOT SEEN so great a faith in ALL of ISRAEL.....

That is the exact attitude a believer should have.....We are NOT worthy of ANYTHING and BY FAITH we simply BELIEVE the word of GOD
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,101
113
Was all in the world ever born, raised up with Jesus when Holy Spirit brought Him back to life? Potentially all is saved until death either seperates or unites? For that is how I read these scriptures.


Eph 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love for us

Eph 2:5  even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:6  raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly realm in the Messiah Jesus,

Eph 2:7  so that in the coming ages he might display the limitless riches of his grace that comes to us through his kindness in the Messiah Jesus.

Eph 2:8  For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

Eph 2:9  and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.

Am thinking of a picture of salvation similar to an unfertilized egg. All have the egg, but the seed needs to be planted to cause fruit. The seed being the Spirit of Christ.

Is this universalism? Hope not.

But, it would explain Jesus being the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe.

Am I wrong in my thoughts?
I have always taken it to mean that it was open to all, but only those that believe will be saved......

a. God would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
b. Day unto day and night unto night sets forth knowledge <--No language or voice where it is not heard in
c. The invisible testifies

Amongst many verses that testify
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,101
113
But I am afraid that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure DEVOTION TO CHRIST. (see john 14:15-24 & luke 6:46) 2 Corinthians 11:3

Why do you think that BELIEVERS were warned not to be DECEIVED?

...He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who HEARS THE WORD and at once RECEIVES IT with joy. But since he has NO ROOT, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly FALLS AWAY. The one who RECEIVED THE SEED that fell among the thorns is the man who HEARS THE WORD, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it UNFRUITFUL. But the one who RECEIVED THE SEED that fell on good soil is the man who HEARS THE WORD and UNDERSTANDS IT. He PRODUCES A CROP, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

The Parable of the Weeds
...Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in HIS FIELD. But while everyone was sleeping, HIS ENEMY came and SOWED WEEDS AMONG THE WHEATS, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. LET BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” Matthew 13:11-30

Both the weeds and wheat grow in the same FIELD.

...The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and THEY WILL WEED OUT OF HIS KINGDOM everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 13:38-43

Who will the angels WEED OUT of GOD'S KINGDOM? Aren't they supposed to belong to GOD'S kingdom first before they can be weeded out of it?

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL APPEAR AND DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,(becoming DISOBEDIENT, because LOVE IS WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS) but he who STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:10-14

....“I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:1-3

The church is the BODY OF CHRIST whom He will SAVE. Ephesians 5:23 WEEDED OUT OF every wickedness

So to those who reject and nullify God's word and refuse to take heed of God's warnings about the appearance of the DECEIVER with his FALSE CHRISTS, PROPHETS AND .TEACHERS, the LIARS who do not have the TRUTH in them...DO NOT BE ARROGANT BUT BE AFRAID… For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. Romans 11:21-22 ...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.” Luke 3:7-9
The above, especially the bolded, is one of the most ignorant conclusions I have ever seen put forth by one claiming to know Christ......the parable is about a field...and THE TARES are sown by the DEVIL and have never been saved nor are they EVEN comparable to the wheat.....The field is the WORLD, not the Kingdom of God......

MAN...You rank in the top 5 when it come to supposed believers that TWIST the word of GOD so far out of whack to try and prove a false point the word comes no where near to saying or implying.....

Honestly....do you have one ounce of Honesty or should I say one GRAM of honesty in your being when it comes to the word of God......
 
Feb 21, 2019
31
21
8
Mormon book, i have one at home but i will not be home until saterday, it makes alot of sense though, as to why he believes the way he does. Never would have suspected him to be mormon though
I was wrong about posting that you said you had a book called Naomi....I just went back and read it again and you said you had a book of Mormon....
I'm sorry ....please forgive me
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
Funny you say that....remember the Roman soldier that had a servant sick..he told JESUS you do not need to come under my roof for I am not worthy, but if you but speak the word............JESUS said....I have NOT SEEN so great a faith in ALL of ISRAEL.....

That is the exact attitude a believer should have.....We are NOT worthy of ANYTHING and BY FAITH we simply BELIEVE the word of GOD
...“Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:24-30

...Yet you have a few people in Sardis WHO HAVE NOT SOILED THEIR CLOTHES. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:4-6

...and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is NOT WORTHY OF ME. Matthew 10:38

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

A person after being clothed with Christ, would muddle in the mud and CHANGE THE GRACE OF GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY is NOT WORTHY of Christ....TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM.

...Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. For God did not CALL US to be IMPURE, but to LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction DOES NOT REJECT MAN, BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1Thessalonians 4:1-8

...“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who REJECTS ME and DOES NOT ACCEPT MY WORDS; that very word which I spoke WILL CONDEMN HIM AT THE LAST DAY. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,003
2,859
113
BLIZZARD WARNINGS!

Psalm 147:16-17 (NIV)
16 He spreads the snow like wool and scatters the frost like ashes.
17 He hurls down his hail like pebbles. Who can withstand his icy blast?

1550875684588.jpeg
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,101
113
...“Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:24-30

...Yet you have a few people in Sardis WHO HAVE NOT SOILED THEIR CLOTHES. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:4-6

...and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is NOT WORTHY OF ME. Matthew 10:38

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

A person after being clothed with Christ, would muddle in the mud and CHANGE THE GRACE OF GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY is NOT WORTHY of Christ....TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM.

...Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. For God did not CALL US to be IMPURE, but to LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction DOES NOT REJECT MAN, BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1Thessalonians 4:1-8

...“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who REJECTS ME and DOES NOT ACCEPT MY WORDS; that very word which I spoke WILL CONDEMN HIM AT THE LAST DAY. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50
Nothing you posted here changes the fact that you yanked truth out of context to prove an invalid point....and you lack of honest credibility prevents you from just admitting the truth.......
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
The above, especially the bolded, is one of the most ignorant conclusions I have ever seen put forth by one claiming to know Christ......the parable is about a field...and THE TARES are sown by the DEVIL and have never been saved nor are they EVEN comparable to the wheat.....The field is the WORLD, not the Kingdom of God......

MAN...You rank in the top 5 when it come to supposed believers that TWIST the word of GOD so far out of whack to try and prove a false point the word comes no where near to saying or implying.....

Honestly....do you have one ounce of Honesty or should I say one GRAM of honesty in your being when it comes to the word of God......
I'm not surprised by your reaction but again i would rather believe the scriptures than some FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES peddled by FALSE PROPHETS, TEACHERS and HYPOCRITES to suppress the truth and DECEIVE.

THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

LISTEN.....

...My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and HUMBLY ACCEPT the word planted in you, which CAN SAVE YOU. Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. James 1:19-22

Two Kinds of Wisdom
...Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his GOOD LIFE, by deeds done in the HUMILITY that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or DENY THE TRUTH. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is EARTHLY, UNSPIRITUAL, OF THE DEVIL. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:13-18
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
The above, especially the bolded, is one of the most ignorant conclusions I have ever seen put forth by one claiming to know Christ.
Jesus declared through the cross He can make us like Him, but you do not believe this.
To unbelievers there is no hope, only fearful expectation of judgement.

But then until the reality breaks through concieted expectation of salvation is the order of the day.

Israel took this approach just before they were sacked and dragged off to babylon.
Wonder how the Lord will bring this to play out. Pop corn anyone.........

Jonah preached judgement or repentance. What do you say to people who refuse to repent of sin?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,003
2,859
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Very good explanation VCO...never heard this before.


That came from the ZOLA LEVITT LIVE, TV program, before his Death, carried him Home to the LORD.

I do not know why most Christians in English Speaking Countries, assume English is a good languages to translate the Bible into.
Truth be known, it is one of the poorest Languages to translate the Word of GOD into.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
That came from the ZOLA LEVITT LIVE, TV program, before his Death, carried him Home to the LORD.

I do not know why most Christians in English Speaking Countries, assume English is a good languages to translate the Bible into.
Truth be known, it is one of the poorest Languages to translate the Word of GOD into.
Just to put this into context, I heard someone describe arabic.
Arabic has one word for different things, but the reader has to interpret what the word means themselves
out of many alternatives. They described a legal contract of 10 pages, in arabic could become hundreds of pages long.

English is pretty precise, and is a mixture of many languages so often there is one word that gets to the point quite
well.

So my impression is not as VCO above is claiming.
And the great thing today is you can go back to the greek and hebrew and look at what it says, to see
if it brings a better focus.

But most I think are really complaining about how the bible is the first real hyper text document that
cross refers to itself through its 2,000 year + history. It is this emotional, historical, factual, alogorical depth
that can only make sense in the heart of a Child of God in communion with the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,003
2,859
113
Jesus declared through the cross He can make us like Him, but you do not believe this.
To unbelievers there is no hope, only fearful expectation of judgement.

But then until the reality breaks through concieted expectation of salvation is the order of the day.

Israel took this approach just before they were sacked and dragged off to babylon.
Wonder how the Lord will bring this to play out. Pop corn anyone.........

Jonah preached judgement or repentance. What do you say to people who refuse to repent of sin?

Here is HOW it will play out:


Jeremiah 23:7-8 (HCSB)
7 “The days are coming”—the LORD’s declaration—“when it will no longer be said, ‘As the LORD lives who brought the Israelites from the land of Egypt,’
8 but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the land of the north and from all the other countries where I had banished them.’ They will dwell once more in their own land.”

Psalm 103:7-10 (HCSB)
7 He revealed His ways to Moses, His deeds to the people of Israel.
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and rich in faithful love.
9 He will not always accuse ⌊us⌋ or be angry forever.
10 He has not dealt with us as our sins deserve or repaid us according to our offenses.

Isaiah 57:16 (HCSB)
16 For I will not accuse ⌊you⌋ forever, and I will not always be angry; for then the spirit would grow weak before Me, even the breath ⌊of man⌋, which I have made.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,496
6,226
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53
...You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. James 2:22-24
In context, James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14-20) that REMAINS ALONE -- BARREN OF WORKS. *Not to be confused with faith that TRUSTS IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9).

Keep in mind that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* (y)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,847
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In context, James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14-20) that REMAINS ALONE -- BARREN OF WORKS. *Not to be confused with faith that TRUSTS IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9).

Keep in mind that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* (y)
Well spoken and thank you.
 
May 20, 2018
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Ohio
Was all in the world ever born, raised up with Jesus when Holy Spirit brought Him back to life? Potentially all is saved until death either seperates or unites? For that is how I read these scriptures.


Eph 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love for us

Eph 2:5  even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:6  raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly realm in the Messiah Jesus,

Eph 2:7  so that in the coming ages he might display the limitless riches of his grace that comes to us through his kindness in the Messiah Jesus.

Eph 2:8  For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

Eph 2:9  and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.

Am thinking of a picture of salvation similar to an unfertilized egg. All have the egg, but the seed needs to be planted to cause fruit. The seed being the Spirit of Christ.

Is this universalism? Hope not.

But, it would explain Jesus being the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe.

Am I wrong in my thoughts?
I'm just a babe who should probably be eating meat after 19 years of rebirth, but i would have to wonder then, why Christ would plainly state in his prayer that he DOES NOT pray for the world, but for those who the Father has given him out of the world. Help me out please.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Nothing you posted here changes the fact that you yanked truth out of context to prove an invalid point....and you lack of honest credibility prevents you from just admitting the truth.......
The above, especially the bolded, is one of the most ignorant conclusions I have ever seen put forth by one claiming to know Christ......the parable is about a field...and THE TARES are sown by the DEVIL and have never been saved nor are they EVEN comparable to the wheat.....The field is the WORLD, not the Kingdom of God......

MAN...You rank in the top 5 when it come to supposed believers that TWIST the word of GOD so far out of whack to try and prove a false point the word comes no where near to saying or implying.....

Honestly....do you have one ounce of Honesty or should I say one GRAM of honesty in your being when it comes to the word of God......
Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21