Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,117
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No and Judas was not a believer....never was........the scripture is clear.....

Jesus knew who is it was that WOULD NOT believe and who it was that WAS NOT CLEAN....<---JUDAS
Exactly.

Satan cannot inhabit a believer.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
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Well, you can say that all you want to.

But MANY theologians do not agree with you.
Get that through your head.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA Theologians HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH you mean people that reject verb tense, context, word definitions, and OBVIOUS truth while twisting the truth, embellishing the truth and what we say??.....HAD you said that I would have agreed.......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
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Oh dear.
You mean the post where you called me dense and other stuff?
The truth is the truth Fran..........and when I get online and have not even addressed you and 4 of the 5 responses you have to me start with some mouthy comment....you will get both bores......!!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,897
6,495
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Until he finds him......
not according to JPT tho.

he says, Jesus abandoned us all, and only us humans seek sheep that stray. Jesus won't look for you if you wander off; that's up someone else to do.

that don't sit well, ya know?
i mean, i've read Zechariah 11...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
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English has its flaws. i think there is a reason that God chose to pitch His tent among us when Greek had become the universal language of the area. His hand was certainly with Alexander, or that man could never have prospered as he did; it was God's will to raise him up and give so much into his hands.

the Bible is amazingly complex & self-referential in a way that no other text in the history of the world, that i'm aware of, has ever been. that's a really neat picture-analogy you put, about 'hyper text' - all these verses linking to others!
i never really had any inkling of just how extraordinary this Book is, until i started taking John 5:39 seriously as a command. i believed it, for sure, but i saw it just like the Vedas or the Koran or the I-Ching etc -- collective wisdom & history and law, with the exception that this was pure wisdom, untainted, and perfectly true. i think that's how most Christians view the Bible, actually.
but in John 5:39 we find Christ commanding to search the scriptures, saying that they testify of Him. ((a lot of translations have this wrong, IMO, in an awkward, interpretive attempt to make it readable in English, whatever 'readable' means -- it is specifically an imperative verb form, "search." He's not describing what they do, He's telling them, do this. and He tells them what to be searching for, because He says they testify of Him))


so when i look at the Bible searching for it testifying of Christ? it really comes alive. every single page, every single paragraph is webbed together with all other scripture in a fantastic, synchronous mesh of spiritual truth, speaking of and describing the work and person of Jesus, the Son and perfect projection of God into flesh. it's fractal, with repeating motifs on both large and small scales, and with what are called 'strange attractors' in math, like super-nodes in a graph, with a multitude of connections that hundreds of paths cross through - like Genesis 3, like John 1. there is no other book like this; it is alive, and powerful, and complex beyond human understanding!

.. as if God Himself is the only one who could have written it ((lol))
AMEN....genuine meat fed believers will see Christ from front to back......and for sure the word is LIVING.......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Agreed.
So if there is no fruit, or bad fruit...
there is no salvation.
I will admit you have found the absolute weakness in this argument....and there is not way around it for those who state that works must be present to prove salvation.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
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Apparently given a few posts recently some say he won't find them because they have strayed too far and and some that the sheep is dead so won't be carried back.

Wow
Of course Bill......the salvation loser and workers for MUST twist the truth on a regular basis in order to peddle a losable salvation.......just like the last several days of people trying to peddle was saved and the lost it.......pure ignorance....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
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not according to JPT tho.

he says, Jesus abandoned us all, and only us humans seek sheep that stray. Jesus won't look for you if you wander off; that's up someone else to do.

that don't sit well, ya know?
i mean, i've read Zechariah 11...
He don't know what he is talking about........and I agree with you....I have read the whole book more than once.....and exactly why I have his drivel on ignore
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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you are the pearl.
He is the one who sold everything and bought the whole field - the whole field of '
you' for the priceless treasure that is in you, that He sees, and knows, and went out to seek and save. His inheritance :)


if these parables are about salvation, we have to understand that it is not something man can buy - eternal life isn't something that rich man could inherit by 'doing some good thing' as though earning it. but we were the ones bought at a price: a price He paid
Could you read it again please?
Mathew 13:45.....
It do believe that JESUS is the pearl.



Mathew 13:45-46
44“The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.



A Costly Pearl

45“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,46and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.


It seems to me that Jesus is speaking about what the Kingdom of Heaven is.
The Kingdom of heaven is of great value...
Being born again...
Jesus....

I don't see how it could be us...
We're the ones seeking the Kingdom,,,,the field with the treasure....the pearl.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,242
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Calvin and his theology (not that he invented it, but he did popularize it)
make God responsible for everything:

Wars
Murders
Cancer
Abortion

etc
etc

Nothing can happen unless God predestined it.
This is why this theology has been discarded by most of Christianity.
I will tell you one thing, mark this down everyone:

I DO NOT BELIEVE God predestines ABORTION. I believe its WICKED. Why would God have His people STAND UP against abortion if He predestines it?

I believe its WRONG. I know what it feels like as a MAN for someone to go behind your back and do it! ITS WICKED.
 
Feb 21, 2019
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Oh Fran is an emotional person.
In have known her for a long time and she does have emotions.
She reacts emotionally as we all do.
Positively and negatively.

But if ever we met I would love to spend time with her and share a meal with her.
Having got to know her and talk about life I know a bit about what is going on.
Given what I know she is a stalwart as we say over here, I won't divulge.

Infact she gave me reassurance when I thought I was not saved whilst deep in sin.
The fact that I was deep in sin but not lost faith in Jesus she reassured me I was saved.

Now compared with a few on here who believe that you can lose salvation through sin she is far removed from that.

Fran I hope you don't mind me saying the above.
But I know you, I love you as a sister and know what you are going through.
Even though we disagree with some theology.

Anyway to finish off.

God does not predestine sin.
He can't, if he does then he is the cause of sin.
We're do you live???? Just curious cause you said "over here"
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Apparently given a few posts recently some say he won't find them because they have strayed too far and and some that the sheep is dead so won't be carried back.

Wow
Bill,,,Jesus used the sheep analogy because there were shepherds in those days.
He said that heaven will rejoice over one sinner...
one sheep that is found...
even one that had wandered off....
because Jesus knew that it could also happen that sheep are NOT found.
You must know about this....


This is what could happen to a sheep when it wanders off...

 
Feb 21, 2019
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Hmm very interesting indeed.
Never thought about it this way.

I would like to ask the question though.

Can satan enter a believer?
We know he can deceive a believer, gain a foothold but enter one?
I believe Satan can oppresse a believer but never possess

If Satan could possess a born again Christian, he would be a saved devil because he would have to go through the blood???? LOL
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I always use genuine faith as you know.

The reason being is that there are some on here who believe that we do not know what faith means and what it entails.

I made this point yesterday concerning belief.
I have friends who believe Jesus is an historical figure, therefore a belief of Jesus.
Yet it stops there. I even know a few who hope their good works will outweigh the bad ones, and then compare themselves against others.

Which is different from someone who believes in and upon Jesus for salvation, and that alone.

Now when we say that then we are accused of using that as an excuse to sin, sit back and do nothing and get into heaven.

Even though the term genuine faith is not used a faith that is genuine will bear fruit.
The person who believes in the historical Jesus has not exercised faith in Jesus.

Therefore it is not about whether the faith is genuine or not since there is not faith involved.

There is that "will" again! How about "should"

Just remember......

1. Fruit is not needed for salvation.

2. Fruit is not always fruits of the Spirit, as the unsaved can show these fruits.

3. Fruit can be bad, as the fruit of the Pharisees sent people to hell.

4. Fruit is NOT the evidence of salvation, as Satan presents himself as an angel of light.

5. Fruit is not produced by EVERY Christian (see 1 Cor 3:11-15).
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
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The field is the world.....FRAN....if yo cannot be honest with what is said and what Christ said himself, quit addressing me....I am sick to death of your complete dishonesty and stupid accusations like above!
A very old defense tactics from a self proclaimed honest person being accused according to him by someone who is expressing her view on an issue... PATHETIC.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
how long would a good shepherd spend seeking out one lost sheep?
It depends on the situation.
If he leaves the others alone,,,maybe an hour or so.
If there's someone with the others,,,,longer.
Sheep are precious and are worth money....
in this case he will go further and most probably find the sheep,
either dead or alive.