Not By Works
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Amen.
Jesus loves you.
And do you know what God loves you as much as he loves Jesus.
Jesus himself said it and he ain't a liar.
We must always remember that even when we get it wrong, go astray it does not mean that we do not love Jesus.
Even Peter responded to Jesus when asked do you love me (agape love) he responded with Phileo.
I love Jesus as well. Is my love for him constant 100% agape?
No it's not.
Some days my capacity of love may be 20%, some 50%.
But what I do know is that my love for Jesus is so much so that I this dumb sheep calls out to him every day.
That is what loving Jesus is all about.
Jesus sees us through Gods eyes.
Jesus loves you.
And do you know what God loves you as much as he loves Jesus.
Jesus himself said it and he ain't a liar.
We must always remember that even when we get it wrong, go astray it does not mean that we do not love Jesus.
Even Peter responded to Jesus when asked do you love me (agape love) he responded with Phileo.
I love Jesus as well. Is my love for him constant 100% agape?
No it's not.
Some days my capacity of love may be 20%, some 50%.
But what I do know is that my love for Jesus is so much so that I this dumb sheep calls out to him every day.
That is what loving Jesus is all about.
Jesus sees us through Gods eyes.
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You may not be an emotional person, but you said "a loving God would not" yet we see in Scripture He would do all kinds of things! The book of Revelation makes all the world wars look like a PICNIC!
Have you read how God chastised Israel in the OT? Babylonian captivity, plagues, slavery, famine, pestilence, earth swallowing people, venomous snakes, etc.
I dare not say the holocaust was predestined by God because the Bible doesnt mention that thing specifically, i stick to my earlier statement that I believe it was by wicked men! BUT it would not be out of the ordinary when reading what happened in the OT and at 70AD destruction of Jerusalem!
Have you read how God chastised Israel in the OT? Babylonian captivity, plagues, slavery, famine, pestilence, earth swallowing people, venomous snakes, etc.
I dare not say the holocaust was predestined by God because the Bible doesnt mention that thing specifically, i stick to my earlier statement that I believe it was by wicked men! BUT it would not be out of the ordinary when reading what happened in the OT and at 70AD destruction of Jerusalem!
Most can see exactly why I respond the way I do to you.........vitriolic statements and false accusations pour from almost every post you make that is directed at me........like post 88,800.....nothing but bloviated opinion.......thanks.....go back to not addressing me.....I despise your dishonesty
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Calvin and his theology (not that he invented it, but he did popularize it)
make God responsible for everything:
Wars
Murders
Twisters
Rape
Cancer
Abortion
SSM
etc
etc
Nothing can happen unless God predestined it.
This is why this theology has been discarded by most of Christianity.
make God responsible for everything:
Wars
Murders
Twisters
Rape
Cancer
Abortion
SSM
etc
etc
Nothing can happen unless God predestined it.
This is why this theology has been discarded by most of Christianity.
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...We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT LOVE remains in death.
...Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that NO MURDERER HAS ETERNAL LIFE IN HIM. 1 John 3:14-15
GOD IS LOVE...
... This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:16-18
...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
... Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” John 8:42-47
...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the MURDERERS, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
God is Love and he is the Giver and Author of Eternal Salvation.
How can LOVE be out of the equation when it comes to SALVATION?
Too much clinging to false MAN MADE DOCTRINES can really harden one's heart and makes him blind and deaf and ignorant of the TRUTH... the reason why the WARNINGS about the DECEPTION and the DECEIVERS were given... DO NOT REFUSE THEM.
...It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
...Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that NO MURDERER HAS ETERNAL LIFE IN HIM. 1 John 3:14-15
GOD IS LOVE...
... This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:16-18
...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
... Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” John 8:42-47
...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the MURDERERS, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
God is Love and he is the Giver and Author of Eternal Salvation.
How can LOVE be out of the equation when it comes to SALVATION?
Too much clinging to false MAN MADE DOCTRINES can really harden one's heart and makes him blind and deaf and ignorant of the TRUTH... the reason why the WARNINGS about the DECEPTION and the DECEIVERS were given... DO NOT REFUSE THEM.
...It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
English has its flaws. i think there is a reason that God chose to pitch His tent among us when Greek had become the universal language of the area. His hand was certainly with Alexander, or that man could never have prospered as he did; it was God's will to raise him up and give so much into his hands.
the Bible is amazingly complex & self-referential in a way that no other text in the history of the world, that i'm aware of, has ever been. that's a really neat picture-analogy you put, about 'hyper text' - all these verses linking to others!
i never really had any inkling of just how extraordinary this Book is, until i started taking John 5:39 seriously as a command. i believed it, for sure, but i saw it just like the Vedas or the Koran or the I-Ching etc -- collective wisdom & history and law, with the exception that this was pure wisdom, untainted, and perfectly true. i think that's how most Christians view the Bible, actually.
but in John 5:39 we find Christ commanding to search the scriptures, saying that they testify of Him. ((a lot of translations have this wrong, IMO, in an awkward, interpretive attempt to make it readable in English, whatever 'readable' means -- it is specifically an imperative verb form, "search." He's not describing what they do, He's telling them, do this. and He tells them what to be searching for, because He says they testify of Him))
so when i look at the Bible searching for it testifying of Christ? it really comes alive. every single page, every single paragraph is webbed together with all other scripture in a fantastic, synchronous mesh of spiritual truth, speaking of and describing the work and person of Jesus, the Son and perfect projection of God into flesh. it's fractal, with repeating motifs on both large and small scales, and with what are called 'strange attractors' in math, like super-nodes in a graph, with a multitude of connections that hundreds of paths cross through - like Genesis 3, like John 1. there is no other book like this; it is alive, and powerful, and complex beyond human understanding!
.. as if God Himself is the only one who could have written it ((lol))
the Bible is amazingly complex & self-referential in a way that no other text in the history of the world, that i'm aware of, has ever been. that's a really neat picture-analogy you put, about 'hyper text' - all these verses linking to others!
i never really had any inkling of just how extraordinary this Book is, until i started taking John 5:39 seriously as a command. i believed it, for sure, but i saw it just like the Vedas or the Koran or the I-Ching etc -- collective wisdom & history and law, with the exception that this was pure wisdom, untainted, and perfectly true. i think that's how most Christians view the Bible, actually.
but in John 5:39 we find Christ commanding to search the scriptures, saying that they testify of Him. ((a lot of translations have this wrong, IMO, in an awkward, interpretive attempt to make it readable in English, whatever 'readable' means -- it is specifically an imperative verb form, "search." He's not describing what they do, He's telling them, do this. and He tells them what to be searching for, because He says they testify of Him))
so when i look at the Bible searching for it testifying of Christ? it really comes alive. every single page, every single paragraph is webbed together with all other scripture in a fantastic, synchronous mesh of spiritual truth, speaking of and describing the work and person of Jesus, the Son and perfect projection of God into flesh. it's fractal, with repeating motifs on both large and small scales, and with what are called 'strange attractors' in math, like super-nodes in a graph, with a multitude of connections that hundreds of paths cross through - like Genesis 3, like John 1. there is no other book like this; it is alive, and powerful, and complex beyond human understanding!
.. as if God Himself is the only one who could have written it ((lol))
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Oh Fran is an emotional person.
In have known her for a long time and she does have emotions.
She reacts emotionally as we all do.
Positively and negatively.
But if ever we met I would love to spend time with her and share a meal with her.
Having got to know her and talk about life I know a bit about what is going on.
Given what I know she is a stalwart as we say over here, I won't divulge.
Infact she gave me reassurance when I thought I was not saved whilst deep in sin.
The fact that I was deep in sin but not lost faith in Jesus she reassured me I was saved.
Now compared with a few on here who believe that you can lose salvation through sin she is far removed from that.
Fran I hope you don't mind me saying the above.
But I know you, I love you as a sister and know what you are going through.
Even though we disagree with some theology.
Anyway to finish off.
God does not predestine sin.
He can't, if he does then he is the cause of sin.
In have known her for a long time and she does have emotions.
She reacts emotionally as we all do.
Positively and negatively.
But if ever we met I would love to spend time with her and share a meal with her.
Having got to know her and talk about life I know a bit about what is going on.
Given what I know she is a stalwart as we say over here, I won't divulge.
Infact she gave me reassurance when I thought I was not saved whilst deep in sin.
The fact that I was deep in sin but not lost faith in Jesus she reassured me I was saved.
Now compared with a few on here who believe that you can lose salvation through sin she is far removed from that.
Fran I hope you don't mind me saying the above.
But I know you, I love you as a sister and know what you are going through.
Even though we disagree with some theology.
Anyway to finish off.
God does not predestine sin.
He can't, if he does then he is the cause of sin.
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Just off the top of my head.....when one read through the Psalms numerous statements stand out and seem to indicate he suffered from a few illnesses.......David seemed to suffer from a disease to the bones or severe arthritis and in his old age "gat no heat" and had to have virgins warm him as he lay wasting away......In Psalms 32, 38, and 51, David's depression was due to his sin and along with this and through the associated stress came the following....
“My bones wasted away through my anguished roaring all day long”
Psalm 32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
Psalm 69:29 But I am afflicted and in pain; May Your salvation, O God, set me securely on high.
The best way to see these truths is to just cursory read the Psalms and pay attention to the number of times that David speaks to his health and how it was affected by his sin with Bathsheba and Uriah........
“My bones wasted away through my anguished roaring all day long”
Psalm 32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
Psalm 69:29 But I am afflicted and in pain; May Your salvation, O God, set me securely on high.
The best way to see these truths is to just cursory read the Psalms and pay attention to the number of times that David speaks to his health and how it was affected by his sin with Bathsheba and Uriah........
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See post #14 from the link below:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/james-5-19-20.137631/
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/james-5-19-20.137631/
Of course He doesn't!
I was just explaining how the reformed think.
Calvinists believe God predestined everything and that man has no free will.
I am most certainly not a calvinist, but some here are.
I must say that he did have some really great commentary and they do believe in living a good life...you know like the JWs do. But the nature of God is totally distorted and this is why I don't care for it.
And the above stuff you said is OK.
I don't mind if someone tells the truth...
it's untruth that disturbs me, and said in an open thread.
Dense, dishonest, liar, etc. I've just about had enough and will have to leave soon.
I was just explaining how the reformed think.
Calvinists believe God predestined everything and that man has no free will.
I am most certainly not a calvinist, but some here are.
I must say that he did have some really great commentary and they do believe in living a good life...you know like the JWs do. But the nature of God is totally distorted and this is why I don't care for it.
And the above stuff you said is OK.
I don't mind if someone tells the truth...
it's untruth that disturbs me, and said in an open thread.
Dense, dishonest, liar, etc. I've just about had enough and will have to leave soon.
you are the pearl.
He is the one who sold everything and bought the whole field - the whole field of 'you' for the priceless treasure that is in you, that He sees, and knows, and went out to seek and save. His inheritance
if these parables are about salvation, we have to understand that it is not something man can buy - eternal life isn't something that rich man could inherit by 'doing some good thing' as though earning it. but we were the ones bought at a price: a price He paid
He is the one who sold everything and bought the whole field - the whole field of 'you' for the priceless treasure that is in you, that He sees, and knows, and went out to seek and save. His inheritance
if these parables are about salvation, we have to understand that it is not something man can buy - eternal life isn't something that rich man could inherit by 'doing some good thing' as though earning it. but we were the ones bought at a price: a price He paid
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U
So then are fruits save us?Jesus does not declare: “Enter the kingdom.” Instead, He proclaims: “Inherit the kingdom!”
Hmm perhaps a review will help show that it is "should" and not "will" ???
If it is "will" why would there be rewards????
If it is "will" then tell me why Paul wrote all those letters of exhortation and encouragement????
"Eternal security apart from works" the true gospel, when intertwined "will" do good works for proof or because it is the result of faith
really serves to weaken eternal security and quite frankly @GodsGrace101 has made that pretty clear in all her counter arguments.
It is quite clear, that in Luke 8:13
That this person is a believer is clear. “It sprang up” refers to germination of the seed. Germination symbolizes the start of life, not the roots!!!
There is not somewhat believe, or temporary believe, no root believe, there is however according to scripture believe and be saved!
Remember why Satan snatched away the seed? “Lest they should believe and be saved.” The Lord Jesus made it clear that if they believed, they were saved, or born again, at the moment of faith.
This must have fruit as in good works (Lordship Salvation) is really works save only in through the back door, and it really only serves to diminsh eternal security and quite frankly @GodsGrace101 has made that pretty clear in all her counter arguments.
I would also suggest that quite often "fruit" is a reference to converts to the faith as in this parable not good works!
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