Not By Works

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Feb 24, 2019
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Jesus never said HIS SON was dead

Jesus told a parable in which a father said his son (who was still alive) was dead


(it is dangerous to make the text say something it does not say)
I pointed this out to you yesterday and was accused of being condescending.

Jesus absolutely said The Prodigal Son was dead and lost
1.) It is his story he is the one telling it. Since he is the author of it

2) would Jesus use a lie to teach you the truth? Of course not

You are right about one thing, you shouldn't make the text say something that it doesn't
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Again, He did not wait for the lost sheep to repent.

This is an odd idea. Jesus always waits for repentance. Without repentance there is no blessing
or forgiveness. And if the sheep do not need to repent, they are not lost.

The shepherd has no need to save grazing sheep, they are already safe. Sounds to me like reading
in ones theology into a parable to get a meaning, rather than the parable providing the meaning that
God is speaking.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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One has no hope whatsoever, the other is still the fathers son. and will have the joy of an eternity with his father
Not if he dies in The Hog Pen dead and Lost.......... Again the point of the parable.....the son came to himself and came back home........ The father said he was lost and dead. The Same as you and I were when we were dead in our sins........what was the point of any of these stories in Luke 15 other than lost sinners

Prodigal son means.....backslid
Backslid means...... Dead and Lost
Dead N lost in sins....... Ephesians and Colossians
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I pointed this out to you yesterday and was accused of being condescending.

Jesus absolutely said The Prodigal Son was dead and lost
1.) It is his story he is the one telling it. Since he is the author of it

2) would Jesus use a lie to teach you the truth? Of course not

You are right about one thing, you shouldn't make the text say something that it doesn't
I think what they mean by dead is not in relationship but still saved.
The concept they hold seems to be, God will save the "believer", but they are in a huff.
Accepting someone could reject God and it is a two way rejection with eternal consequences is
something they cannot accept. So satan is not rejected, or the angels, or anyone in heaven eternally,
because God can flip the switch and its all ok again.

Now maybe they will claim this is being too blatant, but the options are a bit black and white.
Either you can walk away, and it is real, or it is just a sulk, that will be restored.
It is the same problem, when is a believer truly a believer. Some say, the even is singular, eternal,
one way, others it is about a relationship that when proven is eternally established.

Different personalities like different models, and different conversion stories seem to speak to different
expressions. I have found listening to people and knowing them, you can tell what their language means.
Here in a text based, limited environment things are much harder and often become too heated.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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I think what they mean by dead is not in relationship but still saved.
The concept they hold seems to be, God will save the "believer", but they are in a huff.
Accepting someone could reject God and it is a two way rejection with eternal consequences is
something they cannot accept. So satan is not rejected, or the angels, or anyone in heaven eternally,
because God can flip the switch and its all ok again.

Now maybe they will claim this is being too blatant, but the options are a bit black and white.
Either you can walk away, and it is real, or it is just a sulk, that will be restored.
It is the same problem, when is a believer truly a believer. Some say, the even is singular, eternal,
one way, others it is about a relationship that when proven is eternally established.

Different personalities like different models, and different conversion stories seem to speak to different
expressions. I have found listening to people and knowing them, you can tell what their language means.
Here in a text based, limited environment things are much harder and often become too heated.
I don't know how much simpler it could get........Jesus said the Son was dead and lost......twice

Your rignt seems most here is on edge ready to give someone a verbal beat down for not agreeing with them or answering in a way they think you should,........

The Bible teaches me to turn the other cheek.......but I have about run out of cheeks to turn.......
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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... I ask then: DID GOD REJECT HIS PEOPLE? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day.” And David says: “May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.” Ingrafted Branches Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring! I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. Romans 11:1-16

The Prodigal son is ISRAEL and that's it.

What we Gentiles who now are CHRISTIANS have to do is to thank and praise God for His Grace and Mercy and for using people like the apostle Paul in leading us to OBEY GOD.

...I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH ME in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD by what I have said and done— Romans 15:1-18
Just wondering what God has accomplished through the OSAS camp that they venture to speak about.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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Hi God and guns...

The problem as I see it with your post or your thinking is, you've left out the chastening of the Lord. Go back and read mailmandans posts. If you like that is. :)
thanks, but i'm so lost in this thread right now i don't even know who i'm talking to.....and i think some think i'm arguing with them, hard to keep up...

i certainly believe in the chastening of the lord, i have been on the receiving end of it more than i care to say.

I am convinced though that this Father didn't just give his son his inheritance without saying anything. i would say days? hours? talking trying to get that far away look out of his son's eyes........and yet this young man walked away from a weeping father (my imagination)
hardened his heart and stiffened his neck and went to the far country in spite of it all

i also think it is worth noted, this Father never went to go get him......why do you think that is?
 
Feb 24, 2019
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your statement in red above, Reeks from pride, I DO NOT WANT HELP, I CAN DO IT MYSELF.
I'm not a robot I choose to love and obey God....... If God forced me to love him you really couldn't call it love

so you tell me my above statement REEKS FROM PRIDE......and then proceed to tell me what i was thinking when i said it!

where is once ounce of pride in that statement?

do you chose to hate and disobey God?
if you Love God, are you forced to Love him?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I don't know how much simpler it could get........Jesus said the Son was dead and lost......twice

Your rignt seems most here is on edge ready to give someone a verbal beat down for not agreeing with them or answering in a way they think you should,........

The Bible teaches me to turn the other cheek.......but I have about run out of cheeks to turn.......
You are doing great. Learning how to dwell in the Lord is a great release.
It often appears to be a recording stuck in repeat, but you can try different approaches, because the
great thing about critical thinking, is it is not bound to anything but the truth, Praise the Lord.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Not if he dies in The Hog Pen dead and Lost.......... Again the point of the parable.....the son came to himself and came back home........ The father said he was lost and dead. The Same as you and I were when we were dead in our sins........what was the point of any of these stories in Luke 15 other than lost sinners
Well that means he earned his salvation, and salvation is not by grace. Because you can not unearn what you can not earn.
Prodigal son means.....backslid
Yep, backslid, not cast out or unadopted


Backslid means...... Dead and Lost
Dead N lost in sins....... Ephesians and Colossians
Then scripture contrdicts itself, and salvation must be earned or maintained by our ability to not fall back, and not by gods promises that he would never let us go, that we can never even snatch ourselves out of his hands, and as long as he lives, we too shall live,

We either have eaten the food god came to give us. (John 6) which endures forever. Or we wre rating food which perishes, forcing us to continue to eat lest we die.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I don't know how much simpler it could get........Jesus said the Son was dead and lost......twice

Your rignt seems most here is on edge ready to give someone a verbal beat down for not agreeing with them or answering in a way they think you should,........

The Bible teaches me to turn the other cheek.......but I have about run out of cheeks to turn.......
Na, we just are sick of people who keep comming back who have been banned, or continue to lie about others, and refuse to even acknowledge their own sin.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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In a nutshell?

No.

There is a bit more to it as it is the 3rd parable in a trilogy.
Lost Sheep, Lost Coin being the other 2.
And we must remember the context, Jesus eating with sinners and the Pharisees complaining about it.

Sheep and coin sought out.

Prodical son returns.
If he had lost his salvation or got the point of losing it he would not care about it at all.

Interesting that he is not sought out, but the Father is waiting, and sees him from far off, then runs to him (which was not common practice)

So the prodical has gone astray and is now on his knees.

Does this relate to the lost (non believers) or believers who have gone astray?
Either way does it matter?

Not really because all have repented and returned to the Father.

The fact that the father had been watching and waiting also indicates that the father knew the son would return.

The fact they return is evidence they have not lost their salvation.

Though there will be those who teach they have.
But given the 3 parables that cannot be the case.
Lost found, lost found, came to senses and returns.

Jesus said "the son was dead and Lost" twice he said this
same as you and i when we were dead in our sins

could it be?
1.) coin.....woman lost....through her own neglect
2.) sheep.....lost .....from just wandering away
3.) son.....full of rebellion says i'm out of here...............thus......"dead and Lost"
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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I'm not a robot I choose to love and obey God....... If God forced me to love him you really couldn't call it love

so you tell me my above statement REEKS FROM PRIDE......and then proceed to tell me what i was thinking when i said it!

where is once ounce of pride in that statement?

do you chose to hate and disobey God?
if you Love God, are you forced to Love him?
One quick warning. You can slowly ramp up, be pushed further and further by rediculous statements,
and say something that reflects how you feel, but is too extreme for this environment.

I saw in one interaction on a forum, one member hunted the other member and tried to get back at
them because they had got so hurt. Feelings can get too involved, and then it goes wrong. It does
teach us why we need forgiveness and not take insults more than reflections of being bound to sin
in ones soul. Push a bucket of slop, expect slop to spill out :)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Jesus said "the son was dead and Lost" twice he said this
same as you and i when we were dead in our sins


could it be?
1.) coin.....woman lost....through her own neglect
2.) sheep.....lost .....from just wandering away
3.) son.....full of rebellion says i'm out of here...............thus......"dead and Lost"
Did the son say he stopped believing in the father?

Did he say his father is no longer his father?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Jesus never said HIS SON was dead

Jesus told a parable in which a father said his son (who was still alive) was dead


(it is dangerous to make the text say something it does not say)
Par for the course with workers for and salvation losers....constantly embellishing the text....
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Prodigal son

The prodigal son took their inheritence, where their heart was and put it in the world.
They blew it and it ran out, like all the worldly benefits.

He then saw even in the state of having nothing, being a servant was better than the
fate of staying in the world and dying.

So the prodigal son goes home.

Wealth, where your heart is, going for a short term gain, or investing in the Kingdom are
all themes here.

If the prodigal is eternally saved investing in the world this denies all Jesus's teaching on
where your heart is and what you serve.

The realisation poverty in heaven is better than wealth in the world is an eternal reality.
Missing this seems to be because the focus is on a different theology not about wealth and
where the heart is. Just a few ideas and perspectives, God bless you
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Na, we just are sick of people who keep comming back who have been banned, or continue to lie about others, and refuse to even acknowledge their own sin.
we are also tired of getting told that we said things we did not say. and getting told we did not answer questions we clearly did.

I have decided to follow your lead and stop responding to those who practice such things.

I have better things to do than argue just for the sake of arguing.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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I will go on the record to say that anyone who claims "salvation must be earned" as Fran has, is lost.
The bible does teach saved by faith kept by works = a false gospel with no power......one that has been corrupted, double cursed and all that believe it are fools and bewitched!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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we are also tired of getting told that we said things we did not say. and getting told we did not answer questions we clearly did.

I have decided to follow your lead and stop responding to those who practice such things.

I have better things to do than argue just for the sake of arguing.
Some think you attack them when you say things like that, and it just gets worse, especially when to refuse to see it.

As i tried to show the person who got angry and threatened me with gods wrath, if someone answers you with an answer you disagree with they answered you. To,say they have not is called slander which is bearing false witness.

When they judge people as sinners and try to show how righteous they are and do that? It just makes you sick.

As for the banned people, time to let them go, not give them an audience,