Not By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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These are not personal to me God did this for everyone.

Having said that this is not the work Jesus was referring to, he was contrasting work under the law to faith.

okay really movin on now :)
Wow. You think that is what Jesus was saying?

The fact you refuse to acknowledge all the work God did to bring you to the point of faith just proves my point.

Yes, please move on, Your scaring me..by refusing to Give God credit.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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i view you as my brother in Christ

and respect you as my elder

and i like you as a person.... i think youre interesting and funny


i see this as

1. you did not know the truth, then you looked for it in the Word

2. you hearing the truth which took a lot of work on your part to hear the fullness of it

3. when you heard you believed (even if there were errors and false understandings on your part at first.... i know i had plenty)


but brother


1.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


2.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


3.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


i believe you were drawn to Christ through Gods works in you....

you believed the truth

and now are a new creature.....

any effort you put in... is a response to what God did as far as i can see

just like now
youre made new

that lovely new heart of yours comes from Him

any good you do is from God working in you....


As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

That all fine for initial salvation by faith.


what no ones seems to want to discuss is the Day when each one of us will be Judged according to our deeds.


All the scriptures you can come up with in all the Bible will not change this irrefutable, undeniable truth.


  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;



God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8





again



  • For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,



For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11




  • Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;





JPT
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
No.

It is BY GRACE we have been saved. (The instrument)

Faith just RECIEVES what grace offers..or it rejects what grace offers.
Somewhat agree...

Salvation is of God's grace (free, favour apart from merit) and not of human effort.

Faith is the instrument of salvation, the agent of salvation is the Holy Spirit.

Faith is the human response (not a work, having been persuaded a passive response), i.e., a Spirit-prompted conviction of the truth of the redemptive merits of Christ.

Without faith there is no pleasing God
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
i view you as my brother in Christ

and respect you as my elder

and i like you as a person.... i think youre interesting and funny


i see this as

1. you did not know the truth, then you looked for it in the Word

2. you hearing the truth which took a lot of work on your part to hear the fullness of it

3. when you heard you believed (even if there were errors and false understandings on your part at first.... i know i had plenty)


but brother


1.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


2.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


3.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


i believe you were drawn to Christ through Gods works in you....

you believed the truth

and now are a new creature.....

any effort you put in... is a response to what God did as far as i can see

just like now
youre made new

that lovely new heart of yours comes from Him

any good you do is from God working in you....


As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
It was not of my own accord but in concert with the Holy Spirit that was drawing me near. The work in concert was completed when I humbled myself, repented. Then the work of the Lord became obvious and Love for him and my fellow man manifested itself. Faith without works is dead but the work was finally completed and love was the first result. I though love was something else before but I found out what it really means when it happened to ME.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Wow. You think that is what Jesus was saying?

The fact you refuse to acknowledge all the work God did to bring you to the point of faith just proves my point.

Yes, please move on, Your scaring me..by refusing to Give God credit.
Okay, no need to be scared I said none of what you accuse me of.
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,864
113
i view you as my brother in Christ

and respect you as my elder

and i like you as a person.... i think youre interesting and funny


i see this as

1. you did not know the truth, then you looked for it in the Word

2. you hearing the truth which took a lot of work on your part to hear the fullness of it

3. when you heard you believed (even if there were errors and false understandings on your part at first.... i know i had plenty)


but brother


1.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


2.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


3.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


i believe you were drawn to Christ through Gods works in you....

you believed the truth

and now are a new creature.....

any effort you put in... is a response to what God did as far as i can see

just like now
youre made new

that lovely new heart of yours comes from Him

any good you do is from God working in you....


As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Amen, Someone gets it.
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,864
113
Somewhat agree...

Salvation is of God's grace (free, favour apart from merit) and not of human effort.

Faith is the instrument of salvation, the agent of salvation is the Holy Spirit.

Faith is the human response (not a work, having been persuaded a passive response), i.e., a Spirit-prompted conviction of the truth of the redemptive merits of Christ.

Without faith there is no pleasing God
You did not do any work to come to faith

God did all the work to bring you to faith. All you did was said yes.

It was the work of God you believed. Just like Jesus said it was.

The jews came to him looking for food. He wanted to give the food which endured to eternal life. It was not about the law. Jesus tried to show them all the work God would do to bring people to faith.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
It was not of my own accord but in concert with the Holy Spirit that was drawing me near. The work in concert was completed when I humbled myself, repented. Then the work of the Lord became obvious and Love for him and my fellow man manifested itself. Faith without works is dead but the work was finally completed and love was the first result. I though love was something else before but I found out what it really means when it happened to ME.

well i definitely agree my old idea of love.... was a weak love ...not of God

capable of thoughts and desires or grudges i havent experienced since repenting from my unbelief and being made new

God certainly has worked in me something that couldn't be described as dead
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
There was mention of the believing thief on the cross for example of saved not by works here a while back:
I was already of the conviction that he is a parable of believers and the unbelieving thief a parable of religious achievers who needed proof of God: saved by given their life back to do it all over again: the empty-ness they made:
"Behold your house is left to you desolate." Referring to the ones who sentenced Jesus and nullified the old covenant: could only be nullified by the death of the one who established it.
This along with the Lord telling me 2 months ago: Stay on the cross. That not of works means: Accept your limitations and don't. That word I heard when I woke up about 7 years ago, the sentence unfinished, (the Lord did this several times recorded in the bible) I knew what He meant and the Lord knew I could finish the sentence: Don't take things in your hands again. In short if you get the picture our works have to do with pride of achievement and are old clothes that we need to discard. To have the new clothes.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Hey Laffy how is it going....I see what your saying, but want to give you something to ponder.....Jesus did say that which is born of spirit is spirit and that born of flesh is flesh.....but we cannot alleviate that man was made in God's image with a body, mind and soul/spirit.....

A question.....Jesus came in the flesh as the word made flesh...Was Jesus God in the flesh?

Father <-> Intellect
Son <-> Body
HS <-> Breath or Spirit

Does it take All three parts to make man man?
Hello dc, :love:

It's going well, thank you for asking! How are you? :) I have enjoyed pondering what you have said....

True, God made man in His image......body, soul and spirit. You're saying body, mind and soul/spirit. Are you saying the soul and spirit are one and the same? I never have believed that they are. :unsure:

True, Jesus is God in the flesh (sinless flesh). Yeshua/Jesus - Son of God and Son of Man.

You say.....

Father <-> Intellect
Son <-> Body
HS <-> Breath or Spirit

True yet, you leave the most important unsaid.......where is love? You speak of the intellectual Mind of God but, where is the Heart of God?

When trying to understand God and His Ways, it is best to begin with love, not intellect. Is the Heart of God intellectual? Is Mercy intellectual? The Heart of God overrules the Mind of God......Mercy triumphs over Judgment. God has compassion on the sinner and the saint at random moments? There are ways of God that are not intellectual and ways of God that are intellectual.

You ask if it takes all three parts to make man man...

Does it take all three parts to make man man?

Yes, God made man in His image in three parts - Body, Soul and Spirit.

Spirit = the part of us that communes with the Father, Son/Word and Holy Spirit
Soul = has 3 parts (mind, will and emotions) = currently being restored by the Word and Holy Spirit of God
Body = currently dying yet, will be redeemed at the Resurrection


I enjoyed your post. It did make me ponder..........thank you! :love:(y)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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You said "no works no faith"
We have different views on most everything so....I am movin on.:)
Not to mention his whole premise misses the fact that believers can also have works not defined as good....like David killing Uriah....but hey....when one must peddle good works to be saved and or some creed over the bible...what does one expect!
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Our spirit is part of our person....our humanity.

BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT

We ARE HUMAN.
Where did the word "human" come from? :unsure: God said, "Let us make man in our image." Is God human?

God created man with three parts, Body, Soul and Spirit. We were designed to be in a relationship with God - connected to Him by body, soul and spirit.

Human and humanity sounds like a fallen state to me - mortal and corrupt.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Where did the word "human" come from? :unsure: God said, "Let us make man in our image." Is God human?

God created man with three parts, Body, Soul and Spirit. We were designed to be in a relationship with God - connected to Him by body, soul and spirit.

Human and humanity sounds like a fallen state to me - mortal and corrupt.
Jesus was also called the Son of Man....a title he gave to himself....was he all man and all God?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Your stuck on semantics. And I fear you do not have an understanding of grace.

The mere fact you were being able to be saved is by by the grace of God.

Even Cain was shown grace before he murdered his brother, After he murdered his brother, and even in his punishment.

I suggest your stop trying to force everything into a calvinist viewpoint, and start actually looking at the word of God.

Once again.

It is the work of God you believe

Those are jesus words not mine, Your argument is against him.
I do not have an understanding of grace, okay thank you for that assessment, and I think you have it backwards the problem is how to rescue scripture from a lens that is very firmly entrenched and pervasive.

Every man has the constitutional ability to believe. Passage after passage shows that not only do we see men being given the legitimate responsibility to believe, we see them seeking after God and being persuaded!

Obviously someone who does not agree with you, means they are not as learned as you :)
That's fine I am not worried.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
3,792
1,704
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Where did the word "human" come from? :unsure: God said, "Let us make man in our image." Is God human?

God created man with three parts, Body, Soul and Spirit. We were designed to be in a relationship with God - connected to Him by body, soul and spirit.

Human and humanity sounds like a fallen state to me - mortal and corrupt.
Jesus was also called the Son of Man....a title he gave to himself....was he all man and all God?
Yes, Yeshua/Jesus was both because His DNA Father was God. Mary's father was under Adam. Yeshua/Jesus was the Seed of the woman and the Seed of His Father, God.

Yeshua/Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man but, man without sin.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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You still don't get it, I had no faith before I started to study and listen and went against my nature I didn't start to study because I like to read but that was the only way to find out what the Bible really said. I had to decide if the Bible was trust worthy and decide to accept that the Lord died for me before I asked him into my heart. The work was done. Lord became real to me when I asked him into my heart.
2 Thessalonians 2:14
He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Did God not give you the desire to seek Him first :)...
God called you , you said " Here I am Lord " and you drew near to Him , and Him to you...
He called you to seek Him \:)/...xox...
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I do not have an understanding of grace, okay thank you for that assessment, and I think you have it backwards the problem is how to rescue scripture from a lens that is very firmly entrenched and pervasive.

Every man has the constitutional ability to believe. Passage after passage shows that not only do we see men being given the legitimate responsibility to believe, we see them seeking after God and being persuaded!

Obviously someone who does not agree with you, means they are not as learned as you :)
That's fine I am not worried.
I agree that we are persuaded. Jesus balances this with "I chose you"

As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world
John 15:19

When one looks back at ones life, and sees how lost in sin and circumstance, one knows God drew
us out of this. So when we think we chose, it was the Lord building the case, leading us through,
establishing faith, giving us rebirth, showing us the way.

The mystery is the word is spoken and the chosen respond, those who listen to Jesus and follow.
So much of our convictions, our choices are things that life dictates we must follow.
So do we chose or is it inevitable? Could I refuse Christ when I know He is the Saviour, the Son
of the Living God, the word made flesh?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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People will see what they want to see....and or what they have been deceived about.....or out of pride refuse to believe....HE that has ears to hear and eyes to see.....JESUS said..........Just like the guy I worked with.........we had numerous rounds of discussions and the final discussion we had he said this....

"You know, I refuse to believe that if I am a decent moral guy that God would send me to hell." And he then said...."This is what my daddy and grandaddy believed, and if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me."

That is the attitude of many that will end up in the pit.............

And the kicker......when My brother and I were young we had a kid named Lenny that lived across the road from us and he was as wild as they come.....we had witnessed to him numerous times about JESUS and surprisingly he was a member of a particular religious charismatic group and he yelled across the street, "I would rather be in hell with my friends than in heaven with a bunch of losers like you."

A few years later he committed suicide by car and a rock wall at about 160 KM an hour.................
Does our past interactions and people found our current views?
Because a charismatic believer lived in sin, and only wanted emotional highs does not make the gifts of the Spirit
an illusion.

If one is a sheep of the Lord, you listen to Him, and follow Him. It is really this simple.
We are gifted by the Holy Spirit to be people a certain way, it is our nature.

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:22-23

People can claim all the theology in the world, revolution, the most evil people possible in
the church, all of which are true, but the fruit of the Spirit is in His people.

So test your fruit, and humble yourself before the Lord Jesus Christ and know His word speaking
to you. Repent and believe because He can and will make you a Child of God, transforming you
into the likeness of His son, our Saviour. Glory to God, Amen.
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,864
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I do not have an understanding of grace, okay thank you for that assessment, and I think you have it backwards the problem is how to rescue scripture from a lens that is very firmly entrenched and pervasive.

Every man has the constitutional ability to believe. Passage after passage shows that not only do we see men being given the legitimate responsibility to believe, we see them seeking after God and being persuaded!

Obviously someone who does not agree with you, means they are not as learned as you :)
That's fine I am not worried.
Thanks for proving once again you are not seeing what I am saying, your reading through some lens, which has filtered out what I am trying to say (Trying to disprove calvinsm??)

I believe what is highlighted. If you would listen, You would KNOW THIS!!! But your trying to fight calvinism or something, so you can not see what I am actually saying.

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me, But thanks for the arrogant comment

What I am sick of is people refusing to listen to other people because they are trying to see through some doctrinal filter. It is obvious you are doing this. And this is why you can not fathom what it is I am saying (it is sadly a habit of far to many people in CC, that is whyt there are so many heated arguments based on false truths and failure to understand what others are trying to say)

As for Grace, You do not think God offers all people grace, and it is by grace all people even have the opportunity to chose to say yes God or no God (I used Cain as an example) so if this is true (if it is not forgive me) then no you do not understand grace completely.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Thanks for proving once again you are not seeing what I am saying, your reading through some lense, which has filtered out what I am trying to say (Trying to disprove calvinsm??)

I believe what is highlighted. If you would listen, You would KNOW THIS!!!

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me, But thanks for the arrogant comment

What I am sick of is people refusing to listen to other people because they are trying to see through some doctrinal filter. It is obvious you are doing this. And this is why you can not fathom what it is I am saying

As for Grace, You do not think God offers all people grace, and it is by grace all people even have the opportunity to chose to say yes God or no God (I used Cain as an example) so if this is true (if it is not forgive me) then no you do not understand grace completely.
"What I am sick of is people refusing to listen"

On a forum, who are we to say why people do not hear or agree.
I have always believed we can only know another when our empathy can recreate their position.
Then maybe we can show where we are, because they may oppose us for different reasons than we think.

I have met racists who have had their live wrecked by other groups.
Not seeing the cause is their experience and the propoganda that goes with it, misses what is actually
happening. We need to answer the hurt and pain that can go generations deep, with hatred and bitterness
eating up whole groups, but it is part of who they are, not just an idea or bias.

So I know of this term "I am sick of" but it comes from "I am right and you are evil" group of simplifying
life and people, because they are deeply hurt and it makes life so much simpler and easier to argue with.