Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Okay, I gave you a chance to ANSWER the question: What Is Born Again?
And all you can come up with is VAGUE answers.

Born Again, happens when you out of a WILLING, LOVING HEART (human spirit), surrender totally to CHRIST as LORD, Meaning MASTER. NO AND'S, IF'S, OR MAYBE'S, I mean TOTALLY SURRENDER TO HIM, an you will understand and KNOW you will NEVER TAKE IT BACK.

The reason I am convinced that YOU have never been Born Again, IS YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of certain words. Those words you have to have the HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, to give you Spiritual Understanding, such as your recent LACK of understanding the recent word we DISCUSSED PERFECTION, where you admitted you do not understand what GOD meant by Perfection. You apparently do not understand the word DISCIPLESHIP either, as I believe, GOD has sent us to you, to disciple you. I have noticed the words with DEEP SPIRITUAL MEANINGS, you just go off into Left Field, thinking you know what they mean, when it is obvious they are foreign to you.


1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"-
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


There are many words that requires you to be BORN AGAIN, before you can understand them. But FIRST you have to OPEN the door to your Human Spirit (your heart), and let HIM IN. He stands at the door and KNOCKS, but HE will not kick the door in. When You can totally surrender to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER, HE will come in. BUT HE will not respond to a partial Surrender, HE WANTS ALL OF YOU.

So when you are ready to really SURRENDER it all, it brings deep conviction of SIN. I cried, deep mournful tears for Hours, realizing my whole lifestyle was an offense to HIM. So WHAT happens when the Holy Spirit comes in ? ? ? HE BIRTHS your Human Spirit into eternal life. You will realize that You now have a spiritual mind in your Human Spirit and a Carnal Mind between your ears, and yes they will be at war at first, but I can promise you that the Spiritual Mind will become DOMINATE as you feed on the WORD. HE pours GOD's LOVE directly into your human spirit, and that is like a seed in the good soil of your HEART. HE will give you SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING, as you Spiritually MATURE. HE will make you aware of HOW YOU CAN SERVE HIM, and I am not talking about just OBEDIENCE. YOU will realize that as you TOTALLY YIELD TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, the MORE you will Walk in the Spirit.

Please COME to HIM! I beg you to COME!

Hi vco,

You try too hard. If you love Jesus Amen.
You seem to want to construct an image of me, but my friend that is your failure.
We can but shine and share. It is up to people to go to the Lord and find salvation.
What drives you to want to know people within your religious ideas, and not just share
what you have in your heart, and rejoice in Christ when love is shared?

So I counsel rest in Christ, know His peace and His way.
And if you want definitions of faith, the Nazarene church gives you what you need.
Also trying to convert believers is a waste of time, as they know all you share.
Do you know how to dwell in peace and love in Him, with a clean conscience, knowing you
are accepted, pure and Holy? This is the place of rest Christ calls us to.

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double--edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:11-12

And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:7

On the subjects you want to ask me about my friend, I am not interested in
submitting to your check box question sheet, as it is just pointless.

My interest is more in your religious language suspicion. Do you think God speaks religious
language or the language of the heart?

 

[Lafftur]

Ok, this is the way I have always seen it.

I was always taught this meant that the powers of hell will never be able to overpower the church, the gate here is an offensive weapon. (This is prety much the catholic view also(
But when I thought of it, A gate is not an offensive weapon. It is hard for us to see, because we do not have city gates. But back in the day jesus said these words, City gates were common knowledge, They was used to keep the enemy out, and its citizens safe. If tghe city ruler was evil, and enslaved its people. The city gates were used to keep those sent to rescue the people out.

Hell in context I believe is the world. The world is like a city, And satan is its evil ruler.

God has sent the church to enter those gates, and go out on mission of rescue, to rescue people and bring them out of that city into the kingdom of God.

So in context. I see jesus saying the gates of hell (the defense Satan uses to keep his people enslaved) will not prevail. That they will not keep us out, that Jesus swill go with us, and we will help him rescue people from outside of that “city” ruled by satan, who has enslaved his people.

I see where you are getting judge, But I am not sure I can take that out of this passage. Which is why I asked, Arer they the same Gates.

One could say the gates of jerusalem was to keep people safe, where as the gates of hell is to keep people enslaved. So I believe they are not the same.

However I will still consider what you said and look up on it.

As you think about it, remember it's about power and authority. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

I enjoyed discussing gates with you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As you think about it, remember it's about power and authority.

Thats the part I am stuggling with.

I do not see power and authority in the text..

I see gates, and what are gates?

But yes, thank you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Okay, I gave you a chance to ANSWER the question: What Is Born Again?
And all you can come up with is VAGUE answers.

Born Again, happens when you out of a WILLING, LOVING HEART (human spirit), surrender totally to CHRIST as LORD, Meaning MASTER. NO AND'S, IF'S, OR MAYBE'S, I mean TOTALLY SURRENDER TO HIM, an you will understand and KNOW you will NEVER TAKE IT BACK.

The reason I am convinced that YOU have never been Born Again, IS YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of certain words. Those words you have to have the HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, to give you Spiritual Understanding, such as your recent LACK of understanding the recent word we DISCUSSED PERFECTION, where you admitted you do not understand what GOD meant by Perfection. You apparently do not understand the word DISCIPLESHIP either, as I believe, GOD has sent us to you, to disciple you. I have noticed the words with DEEP SPIRITUAL MEANINGS, you just go off into Left Field, thinking you know what they mean, when it is obvious they are foreign to you.


1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"-
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


There are many words that requires you to be BORN AGAIN, before you can understand them. But FIRST you have to OPEN the door to your Human Spirit (your heart), and let HIM IN. He stands at the door and KNOCKS, but HE will not kick the door in. When You can totally surrender to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER, HE will come in. BUT HE will not respond to a partial Surrender, HE WANTS ALL OF YOU.

So when you are ready to really SURRENDER it all, it brings deep conviction of SIN. I cried, deep mournful tears for Hours, realizing my whole lifestyle was an offense to HIM. So WHAT happens when the Holy Spirit comes in ? ? ? HE BIRTHS your Human Spirit into eternal life. You will realize that You now have a spiritual mind in your Human Spirit and a Carnal Mind between your ears, and yes they will be at war at first, but I can promise you that the Spiritual Mind will become DOMINATE as you feed on the WORD. HE pours GOD's LOVE directly into your human spirit, and that is like a seed in the good soil of your HEART. HE will give you SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING, as you Spiritually MATURE. HE will make you aware of HOW YOU CAN SERVE HIM, and I am not talking about just OBEDIENCE. YOU will realize that as you TOTALLY YIELD TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, the MORE you will Walk in the Spirit.

Please COME to HIM! I beg you to COME!

Hi vco,

I am very tired, unfortunately.
It is an interesting question, what is born again?
If people come to Christ yet fall away, it might not be quite what we think.
I think it is a beginning of a walk, where the foundations are laid.

Like how deep do we repent? One could argue repentance never ends until we are like Jesus.
If we truly see ourselves we would probably give up at the first step.

My best approximation of born again is love and praise of the King. Through all the miss-understanding
doctrinal arguments, allegiances, one still bows the knee and knows Him as King.

In my life I have gone through so many stages of revelation, humbling, victory, elation, closeness, you
realise as you walk, it is the walk that is constant not these levels. As an evangelist one is trying to
encourage people to see where they are, and then call out to Christ, so the establishment of that
call begins the walk. And praise the Lord once a sheep meets the Lord, the eternal link really starts
to grow. Thank you Jesus for your transforming of our hearts beyond our imagination, to fulfil your
will and way, Amen

 

[VCO]

. . .

Pre-trib - Church is removed before the man of sin is revealed (a covenant is made with many for 7 years which is also the tribulation period)

. . .

May I ask, where did you GET that bit of information ? ? ?

I am Pre-trib, and I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE.


I am convinced that the Beast with 10 Heads, will be the Revival of the ROMAN EMPIRE, the European Union.

When someone steps in to SOLVE their Economic Collapse, he will be invited rule. Plenty of TIME for the man of sin to be revealed. Because that process to make him PRESIDENT (or whatever they choose to call him), could take Months or perhaps a year. During that time the ENSUING ARGUMENTS IN THE E.U., will cause several countries to pull a Brexit, leaving ONLY 10. But actually the Seven Year Count Down to the DAY WITH NO SUN OR MOON, will not start until HE (ANTI-CHRIST) MAKES A SEVEN YEAR PEACE TREATY with ISRAEL.

Daniel 9:27 (HCSB)
27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

So ONLY a Pre-Trib Rapture will keep the Prophecy that NO MAN WILL KNOW THE DAY or HOUR, in tack.

Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout: ‘Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
7 “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
10 “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

May I ask, where did you GET that bit of information ? ? ?

I am Pre-trib, and I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE.


I am convinced that the Beast with 10 Heads, will be the Revival of the ROMAN EMPIRE, the European Union.

When someone steps in to SOLVE their Economic Collapse, he will be invited rule. Plenty of TIME for the man of sin to be revealed. Because that process to make him PRESIDENT (or whatever they choose to call him), could take Months or perhaps a year. During that time the ENSUING ARGUMENTS IN THE E.U., will cause several countries to pull a Brexit, leaving ONLY 10. But actually the Seven Year Count Down to the DAY WITH NO SUN OR MOON, will not start until HE (ANTI-CHRIST) MAKES A SEVEN YEAR PEACE TREATY with ISRAEL.

Daniel 9:27 (HCSB)
27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

So ONLY a Pre-Trib Rapture will keep the Prophecy that NO MAN WILL KNOW THE DAY or HOUR, in tack.

Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout: ‘Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
7 “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
10 “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.

I am suprised you never hear of that

1 thes 2

Falling away first
Man of sin revealed
The restrainor is taken away

It is one of the arguments I have heard and even used years ago when I was an avid pre-tribber

 

[VCO]

if you dont know what an insult is to others, then do what you have to do.
now you can read what is being said, selective reading there pal.

and you wonder why there is wires getting crossed etc

Somebody is looking to be on my IGNORE list.

 

[VCO]

Hi vco,

You try too hard. If you love Jesus Amen.
You seem to want to construct an image of me, but my friend that is your failure.
We can but shine and share. It is up to people to go to the Lord and find salvation.
What drives you to want to know people within your religious ideas, and not just share
what you have in your heart, and rejoice in Christ when love is shared?

So I counsel rest in Christ, know His peace and His way.
And if you want definitions of faith, the Nazarene church gives you what you need.
Also trying to convert believers is a waste of time, as they know all you share.
Do you know how to dwell in peace and love in Him, with a clean conscience, knowing you
are accepted, pure and Holy? This is the place of rest Christ calls us to.

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double--edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:11-12

And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:7

On the subjects you want to ask me about my friend, I am not interested in
submitting to your check box question sheet, as it is just pointless.

My interest is more in your religious language suspicion. Do you think God speaks religious
language or the language of the heart?

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


I have told you the truth, and it appears you have rejected it. So be it.

It is finished. That means you are now on my ignore list.


Titus 3:10 (HCSB)
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I have told you the truth, and it appears you have rejected it. So be it.
It is finished. That means you are now on my ignore list.
Titus 3:10 (HCSB)
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,

Hi vco,

You have a strange way of interacting. On your terms or not at all.
Maybe you search for excuses to push people away, because certainly any interaction is a two
way street.

When Jesus said "It is finished" did He mean it like you. lol.
Thankfully Jesus takes us where we are and then moves forward.

In most relationships that have a meaning either party start to understand who the other
side are, and test mutual interests. Seems like you need an exam sheet to be filled in first
and checked and signed off or the draw bridge comes down

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I have a suspicion that religion can be used as another excuse to keep people at a distance.
It is hard to get right up close and personal. A simple test is to ask who really knows me?
If the answer is very few, then that is probably the answer.

 

[GodsGrace101]

GG

I went back to look at posts. Was bothered by you asking about giving you an old. That was an accident. It's an easy thing to do on my iPad as I'm scrolling down. So sorry I didn't catch it.

I don't normally give negative reactions to anyone. Can't remember if I ever did so if anyone has received one from me, was on the iPad.

Am old you know. Lol..

No problem.
I knew right after I wrote to you that it was a mistake,,,it's that 5 minute thing so I couldn't delete my post to you.

It happens to me sometimes too.
I like my computer...I can't even really write too much on a tablet....

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Please COME to HIM! I beg you to COME!

What do you say to a guy who cannot tell friend from foe, or maybe they are the foe but do not
know it yet?

Smile and back out slowly, and hope they do not get angry

As an evangelist you know people come to a point of conviction and choice, where the Lord has laid
on their heart a reality, where they need to repent and ask the Lord to come into their lives.

Now here I am rejoicing in Christ and His forgiveness and a brother is asking me to Come to Him.
Even walking in the gifts of the Spirit and caught in worship, it shows you just how far some are from
spiritual reality or even knowing who they are speaking to and why.

I have seen this in meetings also, where people have one conviction about a situation and they are
completely wrong. How do we unpack it? The only sensible way is we need to listen for the right
signals and the right time or we are just going to fall on our faces, dough, which is a bit embarrasing.
I suppose it is the conservative equivalent of believing you have an evil spirit and my spiritual power
will rebuke yours. And we know how that is going to turn out....... Jesus wins, Amen

 

[VCO]

Hi vco,

I am very tired, unfortunately.
It is an interesting question, what is born again?
If people come to Christ yet fall away, it might not be quite what we think.
I think it is a beginning of a walk, where the foundations are laid.

Like how deep do we repent? One could argue repentance never ends until we are like Jesus.
If we truly see ourselves we would probably give up at the first step.

My best approximation of born again is love and praise of the King. Through all the miss-understanding
doctrinal arguments, allegiances, one still bows the knee and knows Him as King.

In my life I have gone through so many stages of revelation, humbling, victory, elation, closeness, you
realise as you walk, it is the walk that is constant not these levels. As an evangelist one is trying to
encourage people to see where they are, and then call out to Christ, so the establishment of that
call begins the walk. And praise the Lord once a sheep meets the Lord, the eternal link really starts
to grow. Thank you Jesus for your transforming of our hearts beyond our imagination, to fulfil your
will and way, Amen

There you go again, leaning on FALSE DOCTRINE:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


I MOURNED OVER YOUR UTTER SINFULNESS, beyond what I thought was humanly possible. I cried and whaled "Lord forgive me, please forgive me!", FOR OVER 4 HOURS, NONE STOP. It is not a formula of how deeply, it is a depth of despair of realizing how utterly sinful your entire life has been. I was shattered, my pride of life was BROKEN, much more deeply was the HURT in my heart than the loss of a family member. HE CHANGED ME FOREVER!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

There you go again, leaning on FALSE DOCTRINE:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


I MOURNED OVER YOUR UTTER SINFULNESS, beyond what I thought was humanly possible. I cried and whaled "Lord forgive me, please forgive me!", FOR OVER 4 HOURS, NONE STOP. It is not a formula of how deeply, it is a depth of despair of realizing how utterly sinful your entire life has been. I was shattered, my pride of life was BROKEN, much more deeply was the HURT in my heart than the loss of a family member. HE CHANGED ME FOREVER!

Amen.
And you do not think Jesus has not done this to me also?
You say false doctrine, but what you are really describing is knowing in ourselves we can never know God,
but He can cleanse, purify and make us whole so we can grow into the likeness of Christ.

until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become perfect, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Eph 4:13

 

[VCO]

What do you say to a guy who cannot tell friend from foe, or maybe they are the foe but do not
know it yet?

Smile and back out slowly, and hope they do not get angry

As an evangelist you know people come to a point of conviction and choice, where the Lord has laid
on their heart a reality, where they need to repent and ask the Lord to come into their lives.

Now here I am rejoicing in Christ and His forgiveness and a brother is asking me to Come to Him.
Even walking in the gifts of the Spirit and caught in worship, it shows you just how far some are from
spiritual reality or even knowing who they are speaking to and why.

I have seen this in meetings also, where people have one conviction about a situation and they are
completely wrong. How do we unpack it? The only sensible way is we need to listen for the right
signals and the right time or we are just going to fall on our faces, dough, which is a bit embarrasing.
I suppose it is the conservative equivalent of believing you have an evil spirit and my spiritual power
will rebuke yours. And we know how that is going to turn out....... Jesus wins, Amen

Our human spirit was born into enternal life, and I believe it is possible for spirit to minister to spirit. In a way, we can sense when you are close to a like minded spirit. It only takes a few questions and you KNOW FOR SURE. I do not sense your spirit at all.

PLEASE open the DOOR and let HIM INTO YOUR HEART.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Our human spirit was born into enternal life, and I believe it is possible for spirit to minister to spirit. In a way, we can sense when you are close to a like minded spirit. It only takes a few questions and you KNOW FOR SURE. I do not sense your spirit at all.

PLEASE open the DOOR and let HIM INTO YOUR HEART.

Ditto VCO.
You don't even HEAR what a person is saying....
This is why I stopped speaking to you a long time ago...
It's of no use.

 

[VCO]

I agree, those things will literally happen

Not sure when the 144000 are saved. I think it is right after the man of sin is revealed. I believe God uses them and the two witnesses as a means to draw people to himself. I personally believe many will be saved during the tribulation. And live till the end and enter the 1000 years with Christ himself when he returns.

I am not sure either, but logic says they are CONVERTS OF THE TWO WITNESSES, and may have been influenced by the Miracles they did.

1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

My own speculation, is Paul said:

Hebrews 9:27 (NIV)
27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

AND THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (ESV)
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

In my opinion the TWO WITNESSES are ENOCH and ELIJAH, because they did not DIE, yet they will die in JERUSALEM in the future.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Just love these Scriptures...
Isaiah 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Isaiah 25:9
And in that day it will be said, "Surely this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He has saved us. This is the LORD for whom we have waited. Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation."

 

[VCO]

I am suprised you never hear of that

1 thes 2

Falling away first
Man of sin revealed
The restrainor is taken away

It is one of the arguments I have heard and even used years ago when I was an avid pre-tribber

ABSOLUTELY NEVER in the Pre-Trib Camp, because it MAKES NO SENSE. When the economic collapse happens in the WORLD BANKING SYSTEM, that will be all over the NEWS. And when someone in the E.U. solves the Crisis, that too will be all over the NEWS. AND went the (Anti-christ) E.U. Representative from one of the nations, is invited to RULE, sparking the HEATED DEBATE in the E.U., that too will be all over the NEWS. AND the seven year countdown, starts with Peace Treaty that is since with ISRAEL, their Neighbors, and the {Anti-christ} Leader of the 10 Nation Confederacy the E.U.; obviously will be preceded with weeks if not months of PRE-SPECULATIONS of the DEAL (COVENANT) about to be hammered out; THAT TOO WILL BE WORLD WIDE NEWS. EVERYBODY will know him as the HERO that RESCUED THEIR MONEY, and monitory system. NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE, because it is based on a falsehood. And I have been a PRETRIBBER since 1977. SO THERE IS PLENTY OF TIME FOR THE ANTICHRIST TO BE REVEALED.

As far as the GREAT FALLING AWAY COMES FIRST. Have you not seen it here first HAND? Have you not seen the Demise is True FAITH, and the FALLING AWAY into entertain me Religion, Laodicean religion?

You do know who the restrainer is don't you? It is the Holy Spirit that indwells the CHURCH of CHRIST. And if he is going back to HEAVEN, to let Satin come to FULL POWER as the ANTICHRIST, then WE HAVE TO GO WITH HIM:

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh....
I thought all sins were the same and if you break one you've broken them all....
I guess we all break them all then....
Even you.

This is a moot reply.....I have always admitted my sin or ability to fail......how about you FRAN........was you previously banned?

Yes or No?