Not By Works

[Ariel82]

arent works we CHOOSE to do dirty rags


doesnt the Holy spirit in us do the actual GOOD works?


maybe this is just a misunderstanding i have

Uh o you are about to be slapped with the Robot straw man...

 

[Ariel82]

Only faith in Christ saves, even atheist and those involved in pagan religions do "Good Works". Does God want his people to be idle, no. However that's not what saves them. At the judgement seat of Christ believers will be judged on their works however they are all still saved.

Folks who don't see how these verses refer to salvation will disagree with you....because they don't believe in eternal security in Christ Jesus and falsely believe that it will lead to teaching a sinful gospel that encourages people to sin without consequences.,,totally ignoring that the foundation in Christ means being born again witha NEW HEART that seekS God's will.

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


Everyone else will get what you are saying..

 

[Ariel82]

if fran,dcon,ariel,peter all had agreed with what i said i thought the gospel is


and they are going back and forth with eachother


how is it not semantics?

Partly semantics, partial folks not listening to each other, mostly fake strawmen of others beliefs and anger about being falsely represented.

However,the topic of if you can lose your salvation after placing your trust in God and being born again is a real and major divide.

 

[FranC]

its not faith+plus works = heaven


its grace+faith=works till heaven

(possible sin temptation exists possible holyness Jesus is powerful)

whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

think this is true faith plus a cpl sins they repent from even after bein saved


and true faith plus true obediance

True faith
And true obedience

And this is what we are to teach.

Is anyone here teaching this?

 

[FranC]

Its the only other place I have seen the phrase 'fear and trembling' in the bible.

Interesting that in Jeremiah it means something entirely different than what most people assume it means in Philippians 2:12

Most people who read and are interested in biblical knowledge KNOW what it means.

I don't have a friend who does NOT know what it means.

 

[Ariel82]

Yep this is right....notice how it will be ignored by some...

Its not faith+plus works = heaven


its grace+faith=works till heaven

 

[FranC]

I agree...some church teachings and traditions have used this term in Phil. 2:12 to try to get people to be afraid of God and to make sure you do everything right and makes sure you save yourself or "else".

It paints a bad picture of the Lord's true nature and they always leave out verse 13 "For" it is God who is at work in you .

God supplies both the will and the enablement to do what He desires for us. Jesus has the preeminence in all things as He is the head and it is the head of the body that sends signals for the members to do things. - just like in our natural body. Col.1:18

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

In what Church is fear of God taught?

 

[FranC]

arent works we CHOOSE to do dirty rags


doesnt the Holy spirit in us do the actual GOOD works?


maybe this is just a misunderstanding i have

NNM

The idea of dirty rags is in
Isaiah 64:6


It's referring to RIGHTEOUSNESS, not our works.

OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is as dirty rags before the Lord.
This is because of ourselves we have NO righteousness.

There is none righteous, no not one.
Romans 1:18
Romans 3:10

We have no righteousness of our own - we cannot be perfect enough for God.
RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED TO US BY CHRIST.
Hebrews 12:22-24

Our WORKS are NOT as filthy rags.
God requires good works, as you yourself have said.
Did you give up mmd (or whatever you said)
Is this not a good work?

Don't get works mixed up with righteousness.

 

[BillG]

Justification is the legal declaration by God upon the sinner, where God declares the sinner to be righteous.

This declaration is based completely and totally on the work of Christ on the Cross.
A person is justified by faith that is, we are made right before God by his faith in Christ (excluding cults that teach a false Jesus). So this genuine faith in the genuine Jesus.

Romans 5:1


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


We are not saved by our works or our works added to the sacrifice of Christ.

Our works, our good deeds, have absolutely no affect upon our salvation. Our good works do not get us salvation, nor do they help us keep our salvation.

This is because our good works are filthy rags before God

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

If we could be saved by works, then righteousness would have been based on the law and Christ would not have needed to die.

"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." But, Christ did need to die which proves our works cannot save us.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


once saved, the person is now changed. He is a new creation and the old things have passed away.

This means that our old sinful ways are gone (or on their way out as we struggle against them).
It also means that we then do good works to honor God.
We don't do good works to be saved or stay saved. We do good works because we are saved.

I heard it said that you are not saved by good works, but you aren't saved without them. This means that our good works don't save us in any way, but once we are saved we naturally obey God's law and do good works which is a sign of our being saved.

 

[FranC]

YES.

But the part you don't understand is that our salvation is NOT dependent upon the works that we do..


Works ARE necessary to obey God's command.

Works are NOT necessary to be saved.

BUT WORKS DO NEED TO BE DONE.

So IF works are NOT needed for our salvation,
WHY did Jesus say to do them?

Was He just wasting His breath?
Did He just feel like talking to those croweds?

 

[FranC]

Only faith in Christ saves, even atheist and those involved in pagan religions do "Good Works". Does God want his people to be idle, no. However that's not what saves them. At the judgement seat of Christ believers will be judged on their works however they are all still saved.

People are saved if they obey Christ.

Why don't you post a verse that says we're saved NO MATTER WHAT
and that our obedience IS NOT NECESSARY.

Please look for one.

 

[FranC]

You drive me bonkers..seriously.. LOL


"With the help of the Holy Spirit" is what is meant by "God working through us"..

Blue,

I explained to you that I know what Jesus working through us means.

I'm just not sure I trust when some here use that term...
Due to their other statements ...

 

[FranC]

Uh o you are about to be slapped with the Robot straw man...

You teach Ariel,

Why don't YOU explain it instead of making useless comments.

I do believe you've been trained by your master, Dcon.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Jesus said to do good works so that we can show His love to others. Whatever we do to others, is what we do to Jesus.

So IF works are NOT needed for our salvation,
WHY did Jesus say to do them?

Was He just wasting His breath?
Did He just feel like talking to those croweds?

 

[FranC]

Folks who don't see how these verses refer to salvation will disagree with you....because they don't believe in eternal security in Christ Jesus and falsely believe that it will lead to teaching a sinful gospel that encourages people to sin without consequences.,,totally ignoring that the foundation in Christ means being born again witha NEW HEART that seekS God's will.

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


Everyone else will get what you are saying..

2 Timothy 2:14-26

 

[NoNameMcgee]

NNM

The idea of dirty rags is in
Isaiah 64:6


It's referring to RIGHTEOUSNESS, not our works.

OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is as dirty rags before the Lord.
This is because of ourselves we have NO righteousness.

There is none righteous, no not one.
Romans 1:18
Romans 3:10

We have no righteousness of our own - we cannot be perfect enough for God.
RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED TO US BY CHRIST.
Hebrews 12:22-24

Our WORKS are NOT as filthy rags.
God requires good works, as you yourself have said.
Did you give up mmd (or whatever you said)
Is this not a good work?

Don't get works mixed up with righteousness.

interesting

rather than rebuttle

im just gonna study more

my studies only go back a couple years


thanks to those who show me kindness



im going to go get my notebook today

pretty soon, God willing

id like to start a youtube channel doing bible studies

and when i grow in spirit and God tells me im ready
id like to do street preaching (still need more patience,gifted to me)

 

[NoNameMcgee]

i posted my beliefs

they wont change unless its a revelation from scripture


i still feel when i do somethin Good its from above moreso than from my brain or reaction

 

[NoNameMcgee]

and as for quitting fighting (mma)
i felt a call from above
to get me to stop ruining peoples faces

to stop this isnt a good work

lol it was an obvious choice

God doesnt like souls that love violence



like not punching someone
is just not punching someone

nothing good comes from not punching them
but something bad happens when i do

its kinda like saying NOT swearing is a good work

when it should just be how we speak

 

[PrynceNY]

People are saved if they obey Christ. Why don't you post a verse that says we're saved NO MATTER WHAT and that our obedience IS NOT NECESSARY. Please look for one.

No one said anything about "we're saved no matter what". God expects his children to be obedient. Good works still doesn't save a person, Christ is the only salvation not what a person does themselves. I hope you are not confusing obedience to the Lord with personal "Good Works".

 

[FranC]

Justification is the legal declaration by God upon the sinner, where God declares the sinner to be righteous.

This declaration is based completely and totally on the work of Christ on the Cross.
A person is justified by faith that is, we are made right before God by his faith in Christ (excluding cults that teach a false Jesus). So this genuine faith in the genuine Jesus.

Romans 5:1


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


We are not saved by our works or our works added to the sacrifice of Christ.

Our works, our good deeds, have absolutely no affect upon our salvation. Our good works do not get us salvation, nor do they help us keep our salvation.

This is because our good works are filthy rags before God

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

If we could be saved by works, then righteousness would have been based on the law and Christ would not have needed to die.

"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." But, Christ did need to die which proves our works cannot save us.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


once saved, the person is now changed. He is a new creation and the old things have passed away.

This means that our old sinful ways are gone (or on their way out as we struggle against them).
It also means that we then do good works to honor God.
We don't do good works to be saved or stay saved. We do good works because we are saved.

I heard it said that you are not saved by good works, but you aren't saved without them. This means that our good works don't save us in any way, but once we are saved we naturally obey God's law and do good works which is a sign of our being saved.

Bill,
I agree with all you've said except for the fact that once we're saved we are REQUIRED to do good works.

What about Romans 13:8-14
What about 1 Corinthians 5:9-11

Can the Holy Spirit co-exist with the ungodly?

Jesus said that IF we're HIS FRIENDS we will OBEY His commandments. John 15:14

What about John 14:21

Jesus exhorts us to keep His commandments.

Therefore, it is absolutely necessary that WE DO.
And yes, In order to keep our salvation.

Could we be saved and NOT do good works?
You would have to answer, NO.

IF, after being saved, we do not do good works and go back out into the world, we will be worse off than before.
2 Peter 2:20-21

Our works do not save us.
Our works keep us saved.