Not By Works

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Apr 30, 2016
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No one said anything about "we're saved no matter what". God expects his children to be obedient. Good works still doesn't save a person, Christ is the only salvation not what a person does themselves. I hope you are not confusing obedience to the Lord with personal "Good Works".
Our personal good works ARE obedience to the Lord.

I hope YOU are not confusing Christianly, born again good works with good works of the world and the unsaved.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What is strange to me, is how a small change, sin forgiven, extended to far,
along with I cannot lose my place can lead to such animosity not about who we
are but implying it is the worst evil possible.

My test has always been behaviour. If whatever you believe draws you closer
to walking as Jesus walked you are on the right path.

It whatever you believe means you will never reach Jesus's walk, you have gone
astray. Jesus came that we might grow up into His likeness

Paul said it like this in Ephesians

until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Eph 4:13

we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ
Eph 4:15

put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:24

Now asceticism will not achieve it but walking in the Spirit will, letting love
and purity work through your life, repenting & confessing sin and taking captive
every stray thought. There is no boundary or limit to the place we can reach in
Christ Jesus if you have the faith to believe Jesus and His word.
 
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Apr 30, 2016
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i posted my beliefs

they wont change unless its a revelation from scripture


i still feel when i do somethin Good its from above moreso than from my brain or reaction
It's because you are obeying the Holy Spirit.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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JESUS CHRIST keeps us saved.

Our works do not.

Did all the good works Jesus did, save HIM in the end? NOPE.
 
Aug 16, 2016
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Our personal good works ARE obedience to the Lord. I hope YOU are not confusing Christianly, born again good works with good works of the world and the unsaved.
You're talking as if the Lord said if you don't do good works you shall be punished in which case that is not biblical.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
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What is strange to me, is how a small change, sin forgiven, extended to far,
along with I cannot lose my place can lead to such animosity not about who we
are but implying it is the worst evil possible.

My test has always been behaviour. If whatever you believe draws you closer
to walking as Jesus walked you are on the right path.

It whatever you believe means you will never reach Jesus's walk, you have gone
astray. Jesus came that we might grow up into His likeness

Paul said it like this in Ephesians

until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Eph 4:13

we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ
Eph 4:15

put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:24

Now asceticism will not achieve it but walking in the Spirit will, letting love
and purity work through your life, repenting & confessing sin and taking captive
every stray thought. There is no boundary or limit to the place we can reach in
Christ Jesus if you have the faith to believe Jesus and His word.
1 Corinthians 12:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13 For [a]by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
You're talking as if the Lord said if you don't do good works you shall be punished in which case that is not biblical.
if you equate lack of good works to sin


26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
hebrews
.. but im not sayin thats the same or not the same


im gonna stop here i dont wanna cause divison im goingto eat lunch

and study

sorry if what i said didnt apply
 
Apr 30, 2016
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You're talking as if the Lord said if you don't do good works you shall be punished in which case that is not biblical.
That's not biblical?
Are we reading the same bible?

John 3:36
Mathew 7:19
John 15:6

Jesus also repeats many times that IF we are His FRIENDS we wll obey Him.
What happens if we are NOT His friends?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
So IF works are NOT needed for our salvation,
WHY did Jesus say to do them?

Was He just wasting His breath?
Did He just feel like talking to those croweds?
Works are for God's glory.

Do you only do "good" works to be paid?

Do believe you can earn your way into Heaven?

Or do you do good works to glorify God even if no one ever notice you doing them?

Would you do good works without a reward or any payment at all?

Good works are for God's glory BECAUSE we have been saved.

Why is that so hard to understand?

A plant has roots and leaves and branches and fruit.

The fruit is good works.
The Root is Jesus.

You want to make the root Jesus AND good works, BUT THAT IS A LIE.

If that isn't what you are trying to do, then why can't you understand the difference between the ROOT AND THE FRUIT OF SALVATION?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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So IF works are NOT needed for our salvation,
WHY did Jesus say to do them?

Was He just wasting His breath?
Did He just feel like talking to those croweds?
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

It seems the works we are to walk in were already ordained by God.

When Jesus talked about works and helping the commandment who was he talking to?
Those under those laws.

Now before you jump on me I am not saying that what Jesus said in anyway shape or form is irrelevant for us.

Hebrews 10:14-18
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

As genuine beleivers God has now written his law in our hearts.

Now that being the case we will do good works because they have been written on our hearts.

If it's written on our hearts then we will do good works out of the true motive.

This motive is love.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

This love of God and love of others.

The reason Jesus asked us to obey him was so that world would see that we are his disciples, doing the things that Jesus has asked us to do is so that the world will see him, if they see him in us then hopefully they will want what we have and that is Jesus.

Any other motive is bad works as such.

Also to me at what point does obedience meet the pass mark?
What if I fall into a period of disobedience and Jesus comes back during that period?

If we were called to obedient 100% of the time in order to earn/keep salvation then Jesus could have just said "Shown you how to do, now go do it"

He would not need to have died.

We are saved by one thing and one thing only. Jesus in us and us in Jesus. The Holy Spirit testifies to this, to help us, he is our helper. He works in us to do good works and to continually remind us who we are.

What are we? We are children of the Father.

That being the case I feel that Jesus asked us to be obedient so the world will see the Father.

just my simple thoughts
 
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Ariel82

Guest
You're talking as if the Lord said if you don't do good works you shall be punished in which case that is not biblical.
If God told you personally to do something and you dont you will be chastened.

However this thread is about eternal salvation or punishment, in which case folks need to know the difference between cause of Salvation (faith in Christ for remission of sins) and effect of Salvation (good works as lead by the Holy Spirit)
 
Aug 16, 2016
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That's not biblical? Are we reading the same bible? John 3:36 Mathew 7:19 John 15:6 Jesus also repeats many times that IF we are His FRIENDS we wll obey Him. What happens if we are NOT His friends?
Your still talking as if people are saying to be rebellious... if you are relying on "good works" to get you into Gods Kingdom you may be in for a unfortunate surprise just like the Catholics & their practices you support.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Justification is the legal declaration by God upon the sinner, where God declares the sinner to be righteous.

This declaration is based completely and totally on the work of Christ on the Cross.
A person is justified by faith
that is, we are made right before God by his faith in Christ (excluding cults that teach a false Jesus). So this genuine faith in the genuine Jesus.

Romans 5:1


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


We are not saved by our works or our works added to the sacrifice of Christ.

Our works, our good deeds, have absolutely no affect upon our salvation. Our good works do not get us salvation, nor do they help us keep our salvation.

This is because our good works are filthy rags before God

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

If we could be saved by works, then righteousness would have been based on the law and Christ would not have needed to die.

"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." But, Christ did need to die which proves our works cannot save us.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


once saved, the person is now changed. He is a new creation and the old things have passed away.

This means that our old sinful ways are gone (or on their way out as we struggle against them).
It also means that we then do good works to honor God.
We don't do good works to be saved or stay saved. We do good works because we are saved.

I heard it said that you are not saved by good works, but you aren't saved without them. This means that our good works don't save us in any way, but once we are saved we naturally obey God's law and do good works which is a sign of our being saved.
And post salvation good works are jewels stored up in Heaven with God and they are the rewards of a race run well...not salvation but the previous jewels and the blessed words from our Father when He says "Good work, my beloved child. Welcome home."
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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if you equate lack of good works to sin


26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Why do you equate the lack of good works to sin?

Can I as a reverse question?

Lets say a believer secretly delivers a food parcel to a family in need and a non believer does the same.

In the eyes of God who is better?

So often we look at works as the things we do but not the things we don't do.

So given the above scenario let's say the believer doesn't meet the need of the family but a non believer does?

In the eyes of God who is better?

With regards to v26 this is my understanding

sin willfully: The reference here is not to an occasional act of sin, but to a conscious rejection of God.
It is to reject Jesus full stop.
 
Aug 16, 2016
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If God told you personally to do something and you dont you will be chastened. However this thread is about eternal salvation or punishment, in which case folks need to know the difference between cause of Salvation (faith in Christ for remission of sins) and effect of Salvation (good works as lead by the Holy Spirit)
Yes i am aware of God chastening his people. Wasnt referring to direct orders from the Lord to do something, but people who are on a personal mission to do as many works as possible as if it's their source of salvation
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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interesting

rather than rebuttle

im just gonna study more

my studies only go back a couple years


thanks to those who show me kindness



im going to go get my notebook today

pretty soon, God willing

id like to start a youtube channel doing bible studies

and when i grow in spirit and God tells me im ready
id like to do street preaching (still need more patience,gifted to me)
You are man after Gods heart.
God loves it when his children seek his heart and want it.

I pray God grants you the desires of your heart.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
My son has to mow the yard.,so no beach till he finishes...

So up for auction: straw man 4: Fire proof Insurance Man, aka free ticket to Heaven guy

With this you can label anyone trying to teach the Biblical doctrin of grace, a greesy free gracer who doesn't care about godliness. He doesn't have to be born again or be lead by the Holy Spirit, all he has to be is to speak the magic words and he can earn the title "nominal Christian" we also have the accompanying patch for "carnal Christian"

His motto is "sin all you like, cuz i punched my ticket on that black train!" it's okay..if you look at it sidewise.,,it doesn't. Say HELL....come on now...we got two of the letters right, good enough?

Now this one is great buy for folks who want to cuz folks to build upon other foundation besides Christ.

You just slap it on anyone attempting to teach Biblical grace or the true message and start torching it.

Guaranteed to burn for hours and aggravate anyone with an ounce of spiritual discernment.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
hebrews
.. but im not sayin thats the same or not the same


im gonna stop here i dont wanna cause divison im goingto eat lunch

and study

sorry if what i said didnt apply
Enjoy your lunch.

What you having?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Yes i am aware of God chastening his people. Wasnt referring to direct orders from the Lord to do something, but people who are on a personal mission to do as many works as possible as if it's their source of salvation
Not all "good" works are considered good...only those done for the right motives...

Do you do them to glorify God?

Or to get rewards or praise from God?

I was thinking of Martha and Mary. Sometimes God would rather we sit at His feet and learn like Mary, but we have folks like Martha who want God to tell others to get up and help them work instead of listening and doing what God tells them to do....which sometimes is to listen and learn.

P.s.. I figured you knew about the chastening from God, that was an attempt to deflect the false straw Man that was being made with your face attached to it.