Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Thank you, EG :) It was almost two weeks ago, and I did have a lovely day, and this year is shaping up to be quite remarkable and memorable as well :geek: I turned 64 :D

Just a babe yet....in several ways. ;)

Sorry I missed your birthday. ❤️
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,524
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Yeah when it takes me back to a time I do not want to remember!
Yes same for me

I want to say something randomly and out of topic to everyone reading:

DONT VALUE GRAND TESTIMONY over A REGULAR PROFESSION OF FAITH!

What I mean by this is: Many people who were born in a Christian household, raised Christian, never strayed too far from the right path often feel less worthy, because they dont have GRAND TESTIMONIES like some people who have been locked up, been into occultism, been into all kinds of wickedness under the sun and then have been saved by God in a dramatic turn of events.

THANK GOD if you dont have a grand testimony! Its easier to stay on the right path, than it is to get BACK on it! Let me tell you the grand testimony comes with a hefty price, speaking from experience here: your past WILL haunt you. I dont know if it will ever stop, but all sin is negative and has permanent negative consequences to your life.
God may forget your sins after you get saved, but the world doesnt and the courts wont.

Be glad God got a hold of you early! Praise His name!

thats all I got to say.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
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@YourTruthGod You said God cleanses us of sins we repented of (stopped doing).

I got a question: What about the ones you havent repented of? And then you die, is it frying time?
Hev

It's not really about sins, but the sin nature. It's been put to death with Jesus. Now you are a child of God. No longer of Adam. In Christ.

So what will a good Father do with his child who still is learning to walk?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,479
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Abraham believed and OBEYED God BEFORE the scripture speaking of Abraham's faith:

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Later, Abraham's faith was tested even further.
You may be somewhat mistaken.
The sequence is invariable and proceeds as follows:
1) The True God reveals Himself to the person
2) commands are issued by this now revealed True God
3) the person professes faith to the Giver of the commandment (if foreordained)
4) the person obeys due to the manifestation of the gift of faith
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Yes same for me

I want to say something randomly and out of topic to everyone reading:

DONT VALUE GRAND TESTIMONY over A REGULAR PROFESSION OF FAITH!

What I mean by this is: Many people who were born in a Christian household, raised Christian, never strayed too far from the right path often feel less worthy, because they dont have GRAND TESTIMONIES like some people who have been locked up, been into occultism, been into all kinds of wickedness under the sun and then have been saved by God in a dramatic turn of events.

THANK GOD if you dont have a grand testimony! Its easier to stay on the right path, than it is to get BACK on it! Let me tell you the grand testimony comes with a hefty price, speaking from experience here: your past WILL haunt you. I dont know if it will ever stop, but all sin is negative and has permanent negative consequences to your life.
God may forget your sins after you get saved, but the world doesnt, the courts wont.

Be glad God got a hold of you early! Praise His name!

thats all I got to say.
I think alot of people need to hear this. I have struggles some when I hear all these grand testimonies.. And sometimes wich I had one.. But if we see it. We all have sinned and fall short. Amen.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
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There is no unmerited favor there, and more importantly, it is not in the scriptures.
Uh huh...filthy rags comes to mind.

Ever look at the Greek about that? Perhaps you should.

Even in English, which none of the 12 team knew unless they spoke in tongues...haha...it says in English that the power of God known as Holy Spirit is our sanctification. Plus the power that's been given to minister truth. Plus is the promise to Abraham. Children of faith. Children of another nature. Child of the Spirit of God. Freely given to men!

Through grace! Unmerited. God in kindness who is superior, bent down to men who are inferior. First to Noah. Now to Sons of God. By grace through faith.

The very power of Holy Spirit!

What bible do you read?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,743
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Thank you, EG :) It was almost two weeks ago, and I did have a lovely day, and this year is shaping up to be quite remarkable and memorable as well :geek: I turned 64 :D




HAPPY BIRTHDAY, a little late!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
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There is no unmerited favor there, and more importantly, it is not in the scriptures.
Grace is in scripture, which is mercy, love, reaching out to man with salvation.
Some take this to an extreme of forgiveness for all sin, past, present and future.

God does deal with us in grace, but not to the extreme of rebellion and unbelief which some hold to.
It gets confusing when terms like this mean different things to different readers, so the same verses
have different implications.

A common one is to say God does everything and we do nothing, which at its most extreme is
universalism, ie all are saved. At the legalistic other end, the smallest sin, causes one to be judged
and sent to hell.

The actual position in God is summed up well in King Davids life, and his sin with Bathsheba.
For months he was trying to cover up his affair and then got the husband killed.
But in the end when confronted he repented and humbled himself.

This is Gods way. The instant response is not the issue, but over time, is it the road of rebellion or
humbleness and seeking forgiveness.

Apostle Peter sought the Lord after his denial of Jesus that fateful evening. Such a great man of God,
yet without repentance and sorrow, but most of all belief that Jesus could change him, he would have
fallen away.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Jesus would not make a gospel saying that if we obey his words then we are in false 'works salvation'.


I have explained it. It was cultural for the times in that area.



It seems you have the CULTURAL part a bit wrong.


Yes BELIEVE in Jesus, takes on a different Meaning than in English. IT HAS TO DO WITH TRUST HIM FOR EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO SALVATION. It does not change that WE ARE SAVED TOTALLY IN THE BEGINNING, but ONLY that our TRUST IN HIM WILL BE ONGOING FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. CHANGING OUR MINDS LATER ON, Definitely IS NOT AN OPTION; or that means YOU DID NOT TRUST HIM TOTALLY in the First PLACE.

That GODLY LOVE in us, to have it become, WILL produce a lifestyle of LOVING OBEDIENCE; PROVES OBEDIENCE IS A PRODUCT OF LOVING HIM, and never a product of SALVATION.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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If you think you clean yourself before God and then he accepts you.....you are in for a rude awaking one day...
Jesus is the only one who can clean us now.
We do have to repent of our sins and have faith that Jesus washes away those sins.

John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus by having the people repent of their sins.
We see that Jesus taught the same to repent of sins; and the apostle Paul did too.

John the baptizer:

Luke 3:8 Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Jesus:

Mark 1:14 After the arrest of John, Jesus went into Galilee and proclaimed the gospel of God. 15“The time is fulfilled,” He said, “and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

Apostle Paul:

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.


Same one and only gospel, repent of your sins and believe.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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That told me nothing and was nothing more than a diversion....yep...let me guess......Mormon, False Jehovah's Witness or some daughter of Catholocism....who are you associated with...what religious denomination
I belong to no denomination.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
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Greek is big on this thread.
When plain simple English convicts....
Some run to the Greek,,,, as if that would change what God simply states.
I so agree. God brings His message in our language, and we do not have to learn another language to know the truth and be saved.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Is it my imagination, or are we well into this downward slid into the prophesied false doctrines of the end times?


1 Timothy 6:3-5 (NIV)
3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 (HCSB)
2 Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
4 They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 (HCSB)
1 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days.
2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good,
4 traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people!
6 For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions,
7 always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Acts 20:29-31 (HCSB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Exactly, so why have you made His Gospel message and our response to it (obedience) salvation by works?

I read nothing in the passage that makes it a cultural rule, you will need to prove this from scripture because otherwise it is a rule still valid for today, and I could make a case that many other rules are not in effect today like homosexuality etc.,
I don't know what you are trying to say.
Jesus told us hot to get saved, and he would not say to obey him is a false 'works salvation' that others here say.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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@YourTruthGod You said God cleanses us of sins we repented of (stopped doing).

I got a question: What about the ones you havent repented of? And then you die, is it frying time?
After we are saved we are to work out our salvation and train ourselves.
Why wouldn't a person keep that relationship going until they die?

Luke 6:40
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Corinthians 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

1 Timothy 4:7, 8 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Titus 2:4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 12:11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Why do you think you can earn eternal life. What is so great about you? The bible says our works are as filthy rags (literally bloody rags) do you think God will accept your bloody rags as payment for sin?
The Jews had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering blood---God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins; that made the righteous blood offering more like a bloody throw away rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

The Jews used to have to give blood offerings for their sins---so that they could make themselves righteous before God.

God did NOT like it that the Jews would sin, give a blood sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins, their sins that they kept doing.

Those good animal blood offerings for sins that THEY WERE NOT SORRY FOR became as offerings of menstrual blood offerings on rags that a woman throws away.. Read Isaiah 1

 
Mar 14, 2011
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The Jews had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering blood---God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins; that made the righteous blood offering more like a bloody throw away rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

The Jews used to have to give blood offerings for their sins---so that they could make themselves righteous before God.

God did NOT like it that the Jews would sin, give a blood sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins, their sins that they kept doing.

Those good animal blood offerings for sins that THEY WERE NOT SORRY FOR became as offerings of menstrual blood offerings on rags that a woman throws away.. Read Isaiah 1
The book of hebrews shows that the sacrifice and burnt offering never removed one sin.

The jews were not saved because the priest gave sacrifice. In fact, The whole time they were prisoners in Babylon. No sacrifices were given. So if sacrifice was required.. they all (including daniel) will be headed to hell.

Sometimes you just have to think.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Your the one pedding a false gospel my friend. Your rejecting grace, and trying to add works.

Not of works. Lest anyone should boast. You will not boast in front of God.. nore will you earn eternal life..
Paul is speaking of the works of the law:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.