Not By Works

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FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Oy vey!

Im one of these devils that read the law and feel condemned. Because I feel like im never good enough no matter how much I try, its like fixing a house where you fix the stairs and the porch starts falling off, you fix the porch and the roof starts leaking!

You combine that with Jesus saying: My yoke is EASY and burden is LIGHT. John says the same thing, that His commands are not grievous. WHAT? Which commandments would those be? I know im extra wicked and come from an extra wicked background, BUT can someone please tell me which command is easy, or light or not grievous? Love your neighbor? Good luck with the kind of neighbors I got!

I have heard all the comforting sermons and people have told me online and offline that nobody can obey what Jesus said and I get that, but why bother giving us useless commands if we cant even follow them? Just to set a standard so we can always feel terrible not fulfilling it and that'll cause us to lean on God's grace? That doesnt sound like something Jesus had in mind because: My yoke is EASY, burden is LIGHT, Commands are NOT grievous.

Can someone unpack this for me? I have heard a thousand sermons on it, ive had a thousand and one people tell it to me, but it just doesnt match the EASY, not grievous parts!
Hello brother,

As mortals, when we see a policeman we feel guilty. When we see a speed limit, we look at the
speed we are doing. This is because we know we could be guilty not because we are.

So firstly we react against the law wondering what they mean and where we stand.
Jesus then asks us to look in more detail, how we behave and how He wants us to behave.
I remember years ago when this first happened to me. I felt broken. I realised my heart
had not started to begin to approach the issues of loving others and was settled just in doing
my own thing.

So then I began to think, how could I care for others? What is a service and a gift to them and
what would be a problem? So one could say this is a heavy burden, but actually it is the beginning
of opening the door to finding out what it means to love others.

Some think this is us working things out rather than taking the responsibility of who we are and
how God has called us to walk. And unless we start to work it through we will always just have
the dreaded feeling that we might be guilty. It is not surprising that sinners who wish to stay in
the dark, stay there, because to start to look in the light would change them and what they do.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
We are secure in Him because we abide, we are communing with Him, He is the vine we are the branches,
We are put in him and he in us when we believe and obey.

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
John 6:39-40

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Oy vey!

Im one of these devils that read the law and feel condemned. Because I feel like im never good enough no matter how much I try, its like fixing a house where you fix the stairs and the porch starts falling off, you fix the porch and the roof starts leaking!

You combine that with Jesus saying: My yoke is EASY and burden is LIGHT. John says the same thing, that His commands are not grievous. WHAT? Which commandments would those be? I know im extra wicked and come from an extra wicked background, BUT can someone please tell me which command is easy, or light or not grievous? Love your neighbor? Good luck with the kind of neighbors I got!

I have heard all the comforting sermons and people have told me online and offline that nobody can obey what Jesus said and I get that, but why bother giving us useless commands if we cant even follow them? Just to set a standard so we can always feel terrible not fulfilling it and that'll cause us to lean on God's grace? That doesnt sound like something Jesus had in mind because: My yoke is EASY, burden is LIGHT, Commands are NOT grievous.

Can someone unpack this for me? I have heard a thousand sermons on it, ive had a thousand and one people tell it to me, but it just doesnt match the EASY, not grievous parts!
I'll unpack it for you.
The law makes us feel condemned.
Because we know we can't keep it.
Jesus came to be our Savior.
Where are arms are to short to reach....He lengthens them.
Do your best, and quit worrying.
I've posted this before:

We do our best
Jesus does the rest.

The yoke is easy because if we love Jesus, He helps us to pull on it.
If you love your mother...you want to please her.
If you love a girl, you want to please her.
Same thing..only it's God.

If you can't pull the load --- don't.
The time will come when you can...
and if it never comes, so be it.
Just try.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Ya see, this is the sneaky, deceptiveness of this Co-savior doctrine going on here.
"You are teaching that we shouldn't obey Jesus?!!!!!!!!, YOU are preaching a false Gospel!"

I have been on here 6 yrs and I have never heard ANY true believer in Christ, and HIS finished work, say or intimate such nonsense.

What I HAVE heard, praise God, is a staunch defense, & unashamed proclamation, of THE One True Gospel unto Salvation.

What so many like this poster has attempted to do is say that because we say it is SOLELY by the Blood of Christ that we are saved, and that there is NOTHING we can do to add or help to what He has done, and become a Co-savior with Him, and to try and do such a thing is indeed trampling on His Blood, that we are teaching "we can live any way we want".

Paul says this about such:
Romans 3:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their [a]condemnation is just.
To make things clearer Paul says this

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26:20

Some say repenting is not necessary, and proving one repentance through deeds is heresy.
I would suggest people who hold this view are not Christians and do not know Jesus.

Jesus preached repentance, the apostles preached it and all expected repentant people to
show their repentance through their deeds or else it was just a show.

And as is clear the teachers of the law were happy to try to show they repented by being
baptised but did not show any change at all.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
Ya see, this is the sneaky, deceptiveness of this Co-savior doctrine going on here.
No such thing in the Bible as warning against obeying Jesus at anytime and that we will be a co savior!

"You are teaching that we shouldn't obey Jesus?!!!!!!!!, YOU are preaching a false Gospel!"
You are preaching a false gospel when you go against our repenting of sins and having faith that Jesus' blood washes them away.

I have been on here 6 yrs and I have never heard ANY true believer in Christ, and HIS finished work, say or intimate such nonsense.
You don't know the scriptures where Jesus tells us what to do to get saved?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

What I HAVE heard, praise God, is a staunch defense, & unashamed proclamation, of THE One True Gospel unto Salvation.

What so many like this poster has attempted to do is say that because we say it is SOLELY by the Blood of Christ that we are saved, and that there is NOTHING we can do to add or help to what He has done, and become a Co-savior with Him, and to try and do such a thing is indeed trampling on His Blood, that we are teaching "we can live any way we want".
Jesus saves us all on his own, and he says he saves those who obey.

Paul says this about such:
Romans 3:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their [a]condemnation is just.
Then believe Paul who says REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Ya see, this is the sneaky, deceptiveness of this Co-savior doctrine going on here.
"You are teaching that we shouldn't obey Jesus?!!!!!!!!, YOU are preaching a false Gospel!"

I have been on here 6 yrs and I have never heard ANY true believer in Christ, and HIS finished work, say or intimate such nonsense.

What I HAVE heard, praise God, is a staunch defense, & unashamed proclamation, of THE One True Gospel unto Salvation.

What so many like this poster has attempted to do is say that because we say it is SOLELY by the Blood of Christ that we are saved, and that there is NOTHING we can do to add or help to what He has done, and become a Co-savior with Him, and to try and do such a thing is indeed trampling on His Blood, that we are teaching "we can live any way we want".

Paul says this about such:
Romans 3:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their [a]condemnation is just.

amen brother
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I dont know this man, nor do I know much of what he teaches ive only seen two videos, BUT: I believe this particular video he is quite fair and unbiased and covers the topic quite well, harmonizing Scriptures:


I also like the look, thats a cool beard! I wish the new generation would pick up on that.

i listened

he seems to believe


1.Saved by grace through faith and not of works

2. works play no part in keeping us saved.

3. we are kept saved by God.

4. we are made new and given new desire for righteousness when born again.

5. if you go out from us you were not of us and we are not of them who fall from faith...



at one bit he seemed to contradict himself

but he used the word "if" a few times (just as the bible does) to fix it


seems legit to me assuming i didnt misunderstand him
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,612
9,127
113
No such thing in the Bible as warning against obeying Jesus at anytime and that we will be a co savior!


You are preaching a false gospel when you go against our repenting of sins and having faith that Jesus' blood washes them away.


You don't know the scriptures where Jesus tells us what to do to get saved?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”



Jesus saves us all on his own, and he says he saves those who obey.



Then believe Paul who says REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
We are to repent of dead works to save us. Which means coming to God with an understanding that we can do nothing, nor obey the Law, to achieve Salvation.

Jesus came to find the LOST sheep, those that KNOW they are lost and need Him. NOT to those proud sheep that think THEIR works and adherence to the Law can save them.

If we could repent (turn from) our sins BEFORE Christ gives us a NEW heart, and makes us a NEW creation, then we wouldn't need Him.

TURN FROM YOUR DEAD WORKS!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,033
4,456
113
Hello brother,

As mortals, when we see a policeman we feel guilty. When we see a speed limit, we look at the
speed we are doing. This is because we know we could be guilty not because we are.

So firstly we react against the law wondering what they mean and where we stand.
Jesus then asks us to look in more detail, how we behave and how He wants us to behave.
I remember years ago when this first happened to me. I felt broken. I realised my heart
had not started to begin to approach the issues of loving others and was settled just in doing
my own thing.

So then I began to think, how could I care for others? What is a service and a gift to them and
what would be a problem? So one could say this is a heavy burden, but actually it is the beginning
of opening the door to finding out what it means to love others.

Some think this is us working things out rather than taking the responsibility of who we are and
how God has called us to walk. And unless we start to work it through we will always just have
the dreaded feeling that we might be guilty. It is not surprising that sinners who wish to stay in
the dark, stay there, because to start to look in the light would change them and what they do.
Good post H.
I enjoyed reading it.

If you don't mind I would just like to add my thoughts concerning your last sentence.

With regards to sinners staying in the dark.

With regards to a repeated pattern of sin I believe there is a cause.
Like the severe gambling addiction I had.
So I was afraid to discuss it after I spoke to someone once who just said "You are sinning so stop it"

I went underground after that. Felt judged, condemned and useless.
Even doubted my faith and asked God to kill me (and I had a wife and 4 kids).

Alas the church is good at shooting its wounded.

And it's easy not to look at the light because there is a fear of change.
It's not a case of not wanting to change but if one has an ingrained pattern then that's what causes the fear.

The church needs to be an open place for those struggling, the wounded can seek help and not be condemned but nursed back to health.

The cause of effect must be dealt with.
Until that is addressed it won't be dealt with and people will not be healed.

My experience tells me that concerning my severe gambling habit.
 
May 20, 2018
225
117
43
Ohio
No scripture anywhere says that God saves unbelievers. No scripture anywhere says God makes us obey.
And that is a statement standing solid on the rock of truth. I was just going over my post fearing I may have conveyed that idea. I didn't see it.
I was just saying that the will of God will stand, and if it be his will to bless me with eternal life in his glorious presence, that is going to happen.
 
Nov 21, 2017
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No one can be saved by works. I have never known a Christian say that they must be saved by works and not grace. But, once saved, there is work to be done.
 
May 20, 2018
225
117
43
Ohio
And that is a statement standing solid on the rock of truth. I was just going over my post fearing I may have conveyed that idea. I didn't see it.
I was just saying that the will of God will stand, and if it be his will to bless me with eternal life in his glorious presence, that is going to happen.
Ooops...hit "post reply" by accident.
I somewhat disagree with the latter half of the statement though.
He gives no wiggle room to say that when he says in Isaiah that he will be found by them that did not seek him out, or asked for him, and they will be my people and I will be their God.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
We are to repent of dead works to save us. Which means coming to God with an understanding that we can do nothing, nor obey the Law, to achieve Salvation.
It means we have to repent of our SINS.
Jesus came to find the LOST sheep, those that KNOW they are lost and need Him. NOT to those proud sheep that think THEIR works and adherence to the Law can save them.
You don't even say things that are from the Bible. You repeat the teachings from false teachers.

If we could repent (turn from) our sins BEFORE Christ gives us a NEW heart, and makes us a NEW creation, then we wouldn't need Him.
I gave you scripture that that says repent!
TURN FROM YOUR DEAD WORKS!
It isn't dead works to obey God!
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
9,427
4,831
113
Amen! 1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
"Bingo!"................'Praise God'
 

Attachments

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Well, the glory of God is a prominent factor throughout the entire Bible. It will be accomplished in entirety.
I do not believe that God would in any way put his divine glory, or my eternal destiny in the hands of an imperfect, sinful, mortal, being such as myself.
The will of God has been established somewhere in eternity past. Nothing, NOTHING, will alter, manipulate, or thwart that will whatsoever.
It is God and God alone who justifies. Myy justification is by no means conditional upon anything that pertains to a physical action or decision of my mortal mind (which is the enemy of the spirit of God).
I thank God for his wisdom, mercy, forgiveness, and love in which he bestows abundantly and generously upon me.
There is no "status quo" placed upon my imperfect self to obtain the perfection required to enter into the glory and presence of the most holy and perfect eternal creator.
If there's the smallest factor placed upon me to accomplish anything needed for the glory of God or my eternal destiny I need not hope nor adhere to accomplishing either.
Hi 50....
I can agree with all you've said but would like to make two statements:

1. Your last sentence: "If there's the smallest factor...........I need not hope nor adhere to accomplishing either".

Why not? What about our transformation? Should we not have the hope to become a new creation?

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Ephesians 4:24
And to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

Romans 6:1-23
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. ...

2 Peter 1:5-11
For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. ...

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.




2. It certainly is God who justifies us and this through no work of our own....Our salvation is our free gift from Him. So this is justification...What about sanctification? Do we cooperate with God for our eternal salvation?



2 Timothy 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
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And that is a statement standing solid on the rock of truth. I was just going over my post fearing I may have conveyed that idea. I didn't see it.
But did you know that it is a false teaching of many? It is the teaching of Luther and Calvin.
I was just saying that the will of God will stand, and if it be his will to bless me with eternal life in his glorious presence, that is going to happen.
God's will is that ALL be saved.
However, God saves those who obey Him.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
No one can be saved by works. I have never known a Christian say that they must be saved by works and not grace. But, once saved, there is work to be done.
We have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved. We have to have faith that is not dead, but alive with right action.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
Ooops...hit "post reply" by accident.
I somewhat disagree with the latter half of the statement though.
He gives no wiggle room to say that when he says in Isaiah that he will be found by them that did not seek him out, or asked for him, and they will be my people and I will be their God.
That is about the Gentiles hearing for the first time that they can be saved too.
It doesn't mean the Gentiles didn't have to obey Him; it means the first Gentiles were told that they can now be saved too without the purification works of the law.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
We are to repent of dead works to save us. Which means coming to God with an understanding that we can do nothing, nor obey the Law, to achieve Salvation.

Jesus came to find the LOST sheep, those that KNOW they are lost and need Him. NOT to those proud sheep that think THEIR works and adherence to the Law can save them.

If we could repent (turn from) our sins BEFORE Christ gives us a NEW heart, and makes us a NEW creation, then we wouldn't need Him.

TURN FROM YOUR DEAD WORKS!

God bless you for sharing sound doctrine brother.

john 9
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

john 10
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God












He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.