Not By Works

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Many contributors appear to have a long church history and hate the traditional
expressions of faith to the extent of calling all believers unbelievers.

The root of such positions is often hurt, anger, bitterness, hatred. […]
How does what you put in this post actually answer the question I asked?

The root of such positions is often hurt, anger, bitterness, hatred. Until that is
dealt with, seeing the truth and what one is doing is actually impossible.

I have met people caught in such bitterness and […]
Okay, so what does this comment have to do with the question I put to you? Just wondering. I thought it was pretty pointed.

Now, I believe a person either has the Spirit, or does not have the Spirit (as in the verse I pointed out that precedes the verse you were using). Here is a verse speaking of those "not" having the Spirit:

Jude 1:19, "these are those setting themselves apart, natural men [or, 'of the senses' (mind, will, emotions) only] the Spirit not having."
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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There is a time that it could be a sin to not get married.

Now remember you were going to tell me the sins you gave up if I went first.

how about this- I will repent of a sin right now.

you are new, so I will tell you- a few weeks ago I declared that I would not interact with any who were just here to argue and stir up trouble.

I have since stated doing so again. so , I broke my word and told a lie.

now, I will repent from my broken word here, and reaffirm that statement.

i am adding you to my ignore list.

you think in some way that it is a sin not to get married?

that is the dumbist thing i ever heard a so-called " Christian ". say.

buy.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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They have one thing to obey
Believe in the name of the name jesus Christ and you will be saved, This promise is to you and your household.
When are you going to do this, and stop tryign to earn salvation by your pseudo obedience?
So all sinners need to do to enter heaven is believe in the name of Jesus Christ.
This is like saying drinking coco-cola is just seeing the advert and knowing you
want to try it.

http://www.nazarene.org/articles-faith

Words are just that, summaries of things and ideas. They have meanings that need to
be explored and worked through.

Read and understand the articles of faith above and that is just a beginning.
We can meet Jesus, in a spiritual sense and commit ourselves to follow, and learn,
but it is in how this works out determines what we have become.

So my friends, how serious in Christ are you? Are you destined for heaven or just this
is an interest in being "good" or getting high, or just stopping yourself from being too
anxious?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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How does what you put in this post actually answer the question I asked?

Okay, so what does this comment have to do with the question I put to you? Just wondering. I thought it was pretty pointed.

Now, I believe a person either has the Spirit, or does not have the Spirit (as in the verse I pointed out that precedes the verse you were using). Here is a verse speaking of those "not" having the Spirit:

Jude 1:19, "these are those setting themselves apart, natural men [or, 'of the senses' (mind, will, emotions) only] the Spirit not having."
Tell me my friend, who are your friends in Christ and who are your enemies?
Is a man who claims they can walk in sin, deny repentance or Jesus works to transform us into His likeness
following the same Holy Spirit that dwells in ones heart?
If this same person claims one is evil and deceived, leading people to hell, it is not a friend by their own
declaration. Are you aware of what is actually going on, or walk in ignorance of it?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,806
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How does what you put in this post actually answer the question I asked?

Okay, so what does this comment have to do with the question I put to you? Just wondering. I thought it was pretty pointed.

Now, I believe a person either has the Spirit, or does not have the Spirit (as in the verse I pointed out that precedes the verse you were using). Here is a verse speaking of those "not" having the Spirit:

Jude 1:19, "these are those setting themselves apart, natural men [or, 'of the senses' (mind, will, emotions) only] the Spirit not having."
What is interesting in the to and fro that has taken place, people know of the Nazarene Church, have
friends who go there.

So they believe it is of God, yet they do not know what it believes and how it believes because as shown
here they do not agree with its theology.

http://www.nazarene.org/articles-faith

The trouble with loud mouths and bullies, is they have no restraint, and shoot off at the first sign of
what they think is opposition. So a decent discussion of the issues is a good thing, of the Lord,
but these strangers want full on spiritual warfare, as if they know what that is :)

And for me this is the joke. Until they know what they are talking about it is just the flesh talking.
What is also amusing, is the language they use, if used against them, do they get upset, lol.

Sinners go to hell not because of knowledge or sense but because they prefer to live in darkness because
their deeds are evil.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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[This post was to be in response to your Post #93,485]

Granted, I have not read every post in this thread, but I have not seen any posters deny that [for the believer/Christian/member of His body"] "Jesus works to transform us into His image" [as you put it]… in fact, I would be the first to put forward what is stated in 2Cor3:18 [as to the 'how'], and that says, "But we all, with open face BEHOLDING as in a glass THE GLORY OF THE LORD [speaking of His risen, ascended, and exalted position], are changed into the same image FROM glory TO glory, even as by [/from] the Spirit of the Lord."
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I have to laugh, the most emotional who has ever been in CC is now attacking people for being emotional..

:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
This is an interesting paradox.
For the emotionally repressed emotions are inappropriate displays of something out of control.
The repression is so complete the individual does not have emotions only facts rule their life.

In reality it is just the heart is ruled by chaotic mix of feelings and these feelings when very
strong burst out, and effect everything that person does.

If one finds hurt, hatred and bitterness spring up time and again, this is the driving force of ones
life. Jesus can change this and bring resolution healing. It is what it means to set the prisoner
free, to let the chains off, to bring liberty so ones joys can become real and depression not be
the only way one can survive.

It is sad to me, and educational if people feel this is an attack.
In a sense if one is defending oneself against the chaos within and letting go to any degree is
destruction, then this is like an attack. But equally this just confirms more deeply how one
is controlled by this internal dilemma. I know this from personal experience of how this whole
process works and how before Jesus came into my life, it was how I survived.

We are called in Christ to be set free, to let go of these feeling and let Jesus heal us.
It is literally the meaning of entering heaven and forgiving from the heart.
So I can but testify, Jesus heals and can set us free so we can live true and honestly to Him,
Amen.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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YourTruthGod said:
DISQUALIFIED means no longer saved:
See 2 Corinthians 13:5,
You have not disproved anything that I had said.
Sorry, but 2Cor13:5 does not mean what you have suggested (above) that it means. I would suggest you take that verse OUT of the arsenal-list, I assume you've read somewhere, which says that it means such a thing (because it does not). Just a friendly tip. :) You are free to do with it what you will.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Here it is:

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

You only needed one, but I give you more:

Luke 17:4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft.

Jeremiah 8:6 I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. None of them repent of their wickedness, saying, “What have I done?” Each pursues their own course like a horse charging into battle.

Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.

Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

Acts 8:32 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented
I'm not going to debate this.
HEY! Thats dcon's line!
I know.
He's always saying mean things to me...
So I like to bother him every now and then...

END OF STORY!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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[This post was to be in response to your Post #93,485]

Granted, I have not read every post in this thread, but I have not seen any posters deny that [for the believer/Christian/member of His body"] "Jesus works to transform us into His image" [as you put it]… in fact, I would be the first to put forward what is stated in 2Cor3:18 [as to the 'how'], and that says, "But we all, with open face BEHOLDING as in a glass THE GLORY OF THE LORD [speaking of His risen, ascended, and exalted position], are changed into the same image FROM glory TO glory, even as by [/from] the Spirit of the Lord."
Unfortunately my friend what I am stating is the case.
It is also partly the problem. The agenda is to cause a split in loyalties while
not discussing the why and then poison the discussion with slander.
I have been here now a few weeks, and we have covered these issues.
It is simply covered in the statement of faith of the Nazarene church.

For this I was called I was preaching a false gospel. So if you want to know
more read article 8. This is the point of disagreement, as declared quite
clearly a week or ago.

It is pointless saying who said what and when, the issue is the issue.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Sorry, but 2Cor13:5 does not mean what you have suggested (above) that it means. I would suggest you take that verse OUT of the arsenal-list, I assume you've read somewhere, which says that it means such a thing (because it does not). Just a friendly tip. :) You are free to do with it what you will.
Would you be so kind as to explain to us what DISQUALIFIED means?
Since we're too dumb to know...

Maybe "the Greek" could help you out here...?
But I doubt it.



disqualified
/dɪsˈkwɒlɪfʌɪd/
adjective

  1. (of a person) declared ineligible for an office, activity, or competition because of an offence or infringement.
    "he was hit by a disqualified driver"





    And here is your Greek:
will not be disqualified.ἀδόκιμος
(adokimos)96b:
not standing the test,
rejected from alpha (as a neg. prefix) and
dokimos
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Granted, I have not read every post in this thread, but I have not seen any posters [as you suggest] deny that [for the believer/Christian/member of His body"] "Jesus works to transform us into His image" [as you put it]… in fact, I would be the first to put forward what is stated in 2Cor3:18 [as to the 'how'], and that says, "But we all, with open face BEHOLDING as in a glass THE GLORY OF THE LORD [speaking of His risen, ascended, and exalted position], are changed into the same image FROM glory TO glory, even as by [/from] the Spirit of the Lord."
...which would be in contrast to (the bold below):

"17 Be imitators together of me brothers, and consider those walking thus, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many are walking—of whom I have told you often and now I say even weeping—as enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose God is the belly and glory is in their shame, those minding earthly things.

20 For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we are awaiting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our body of humiliation, conformed to the body of His glory, according to the working enabling Him even to subdue all things to Himself."
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Do the others understand? Is there something about gb9 that is worse than some of the others that I should know about? Thanks.
Well, Ive tried and I find that this particular member never answers to anything and does not seem to grasp what one says to him.

The others grasp it but do not agree that we need to obey God...funny since the whole N.T. speaks to this.

There is one other member who is obsessed with sin and how we sin every day.
I've stopped speaking to him too...Philippians tells me to think on things of above and sinning is not from above.

You can talk to him...just don't expect to be understood...
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Lovely, thank you.....

You remind me of a person who would NOT put pictures on his wall for fear that it was idolatrous and therefore disobedient and against the pure love he proclaimed for God.

And another thing I noticed about this person how self-righteous he was, wanting everyone to behave live like him, he was the righteous one, he was the obedient one, BUT he knew no peace or rest but was full of striving and condemnation.

The problem is you do not even understand or preach "obedience" within the entire framework of the Gospel message and the meaning of the word within that language

Secondly you do not even abide by the faulty theology you preach as has been pointed out to me

I pray daily no one listens to you, why???? because your faulty doctrine, which is not a salvation doctrine, is destructive and the complete antithesis to the grace of Jesus for a victorious, worthy walk.

You cannot even understand that Jesus was preaching under the law and that the revelation of God is progressive and one has to understand the end point to understand the beginning.

So your call for scripture is not fruitful, when one does not understand the final revelation of Jesus, and in isolation scripture can be made to prove much faulty doctrine as evidenced here daily:(

I am just a sinner saved by grace, so any sin I commit I can own up to......can you, we are all waiting???


5218 hypakoḗ (from191 /akoúō, "to hear" and 5259 /hypó, "beneath") – i.e. obedience – literally, "submission to what is heard" (WS, 695), i.e. obedience as the response to someone speaking. This refers both to an earthly voice and the Lord's voice (see 2 Cor 10:5; 1 Pet 1:2
UG,,,as I've said before...
you can believe whatever you will.
Just make sure it's the right belief because although I'm firm in saying that doctrine will not save us because only Jesus can...
SOME DOCTRINE can lead to loss of salvation...for instance believing one does not need to obey can lead to loss of salvation because you'd be going directly against the word of God.

What I will reply to is this idea that Jesus was preaching under the law....highlighted in green in your post above.

This is what I understand from what you've stated:

1. Jesus was speaking for 3 1/2 years about something He did not really mean.

2. Why? Because HE was under the law,,,,and now WE are not,,,so He didn't really know what the heck He was doing.

3. Since He was GOD,,, He should have been smart enough to know the truth would go through some kind of progression and ADJUST what He was saying...
geesh...He couldn't even do that? Why should we listen to Him at all???

4. So if we can't adhere to what Jesus said for our salvation...WHO are we supposed to listen to that could know more than HE did??? WHO understands the progression and can give us a new gospel that teaches us how to be saved?

Yeah. Wow. I'm REALLY worried now...
And to think I was depending on Jesus all this time!
Whew! What to do?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Would you be so kind as to explain to us what DISQUALIFIED means?
Since we're too dumb to know...
Maybe "the Greek" could help you out here...?
But I doubt it.
disqualified
/dɪsˈkwɒlɪfʌɪd/
adjective


  1. (of a person) declared ineligible for an office, activity, or competition because of an offence or infringement.
    "he was hit by a disqualified driver"
  1. And here is your Greek:
will not be disqualified.ἀδόκιμος
(adokimos)96b:
not standing the test,
rejected from alpha (as a neg. prefix) and
dokimos
The test was: "Christ is in you"

...and Paul is making a specific point to a people who were putting his apostleship "to the test" (meaning, questioning its validity) and he is responding in such a way that they themselves (by their own consciences) PROVE its validity.

He is not making any such "lose-your-salvation" point (or the like).
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Amen UnderGrace, some people refuse to talk to these people because they are hypocrites.
Some people are blessed without the incessant complaints and statements of abuse.
:D \:)/ Lord be praised, He has set us free, Amen

 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Oh?

No pride here. You think you are all that?

Lets see

John 3: 16 (belief)

John 4: 14 (Drink spiritual water)

John 6: 27, 35, 37-40, 50-51, 54-58 (eat food, bread, drink flesh and eat blood (the word))

Acts 2: 21 9 (call out on name of Jesus)

Acts 16: 31. (Call out on name of Jesus)

Romans 5: 9 - 10 (By Blood)

Romans 10: 9, 13 (Confess and Believe Jesus)

Eph 1: 13 - 14 (after hearing word (gospel) Believe)

Eph 2: 5 - 10 (Faith alone)

2 Tim 1: 9 (Not by works, but by grace)

Titus 3: 5 (Not by good deeds but by Gods mercy)


These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Go ahead and refute those passages, all of which make it clear HOW WE ARE SAVED! I am sure I can find many more
No that is not the scripture you were talking about.
You said this:
They have one thing to obey

Believe in the name of the name jesus Christ and you will be saved, This promise is to you and your household.

When are you going to do this, and stop tryign to earn salvation by your pseudo obedience?
Now give the scripture reference.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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The test was: "Christ is in you"...

and Paul is making a specific point to a people who were putting his apostleship "to the test" (meaning, questioning its validity) and he is responding in such a way that they themselves (by their own consciences) PROVE its validity.

He is not making any such "lose-your-salvation" point (or the like).
Sure DW, I know what Paul was talking about.
But the fact is that at the end of the talk he DOES SAY that he's worried that HE HIMSELF might be disqualified and so he buffets his body.

Disqualified means rejected. It says this even in the ever-so-popular-Greek.
Paul spoke many times about becoming lost...it's just that this new and popular idea is loved by many. (OSAS I mean)

I don't know why since we can be sure of our salvation as long as we remain IN CHRIST.

What do you make of

Colossians 1:21-23 ??
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Paul speaks many times of becoming lost.
Jesus did too.

You seem like an intelligent guy...why even discuss this?
I'm not worried about loss of my salvation?
Are you worried about it that you need to believe it's not possible??