Not By Works

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FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,914
882
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this is too much. my brain is about to explode.
the guy who refuses to recognize the actual definition of the word sin just wrote an essay about watering down sin.
I think we have the most un-self aware person on the planet.
I have to put you on ignore. I can't take this personal trip through your thoughts and emotions anymore.
good luck with your personal psychology exam.
Again and again I sent my servants the prophets, who said,
'Do not do this detestable thing that I hate!'
But they did not listen or pay attention; they did not turn from their wickedness or
stop burning incense to other gods.
Therefore, my fierce anger was poured out; it raged against the towns of Judah and
the streets of Jerusalem and made them the desolate ruins they are today.
Jeremiah 44:4-6

The sinners passions posses their very souls and only evil intent spews from their lips, condemning
anyone who suggests what they are doing is wrong.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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so, wait a minute, are you saying it is a sin to not be married????????
There is a time that it could be a sin to not get married.

Now remember you were going to tell me the sins you gave up if I went first.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
2,187
482
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DISQUALIFIED means no longer saved:
See 2 Corinthians 13:5,
Okay, here (now!) you have selected a verse that is in the CONTEXT of Paul vindicating his apostleship (chpts 9-13 at least, if not the ENTIRE epistle). Here, he is not saying that all Christians of all times should continually "examine themselves" to be SURE they are REALLY saved. He is making a specific point to people who were questioning [and doubting] HIS APOSTLESHIP (and wanting to INSTEAD follow the well-spoken dudes who were not whom God sent), and he is saying, basically, "instead of examining ME [and bringing me up short, in your estimation], EXAMINE YOURSELVES to see whether you are in THE faith" BECAUSE (think about it, people) "IF YOU ARE [and he knows their internal answer to be 'YES!! We ARE!!'], and I am the one who presented the gospel to you, then YOU ARE MY PROOF [of apostleship]!!"


This is NOT a verse proving some kind of "lose-your-salvation" / "prove-your-salvation-by-some-means" kind of thing, nor a "works-salvation" or "keep your salvation" thing. This context is one that is typically wrenched of its true meaning, sadly.



["grieve not the Spirit..."]
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,914
882
113
Just asking, but are you pointing out this verse in order to make the point that it is saying "[do this] so that you will be saved [in the end]"?

...or acknowledging that the preceding verse says, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE sealed unto the day of redemption"... ? [speaking to people who ARE saved / have eternal life]

I cannot tell which one you are suggesting (and the remainder of your post didn't help clarify it either). Thanks.
Many contributors appear to have a long church history and hate the traditional
expressions of faith to the extent of calling all believers unbelievers.

The root of such positions is often hurt, anger, bitterness, hatred. Until that is
dealt with, seeing the truth and what one is doing is actually impossible.

I have met people caught in such bitterness and I myself have been tempted
to turn such hurt against people. It is pointing out until we are clear and sorted
nothing makes sense and sometimes our enemies are our friends.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
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Just because you say it is for God does not mean anything,

To say that is against God.


Revelation 2212 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

The people in James thought they had faith, the people of Hebrews and galations trying to return to law thought they did it for God. They jews who killed christ thought they did it for God

We are told to watch our lives and doctrine closely.


1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

You tell me, I have no idea what this is in response to.

he did? And if he did, Did he repent of sins, or who he was?


Paul wasn't saved yet on that road to Damascus. He had to do some things first.
He was tortured with blindness and fasted to where he did not eat or drink for three days.
He spent that time praying.
Can you imagine what Paul said in those prayers?
Oh how he must have wept and cried out for forgiveness.

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

I believe in repenting. There is no way possible to know every possible sin before your saved, stop lieing to yourself thinking you repented of sin, you can’trepent of things you have no no idea what they are.
You better know what you do. How do you not know what a sin is if the Bible tells you?

So you say here you believe in repenting of sin? Then why are you going against me for saying we have to repent of sin?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,613
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Right, the Word!

God does not force anyone to obey. How do you think you are forced when you obey?
You seem to define "believe in Jesus" (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..) as believe in "everything Jesus says and commands in the Word" with the implication of "obeying everything that Jesus says and commands" as the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, which takes us right back to "performance based works salvation." I often hear that from works-salvationists, especially those who teach sinless perfection.

You mentioned nothing about believing/trusting/relying in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which is what it means to "believe in Jesus" unto salvation. Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved through faith, NOT WORKS. God does not force believers to obey, yet works-salvationists continuously say "must or else" as if obeying Jesus is forced and legalistic.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
84
28
They have one thing to obey

Believe in the name of the name jesus Christ and you will be saved, This promise is to you and your household.

When are you going to do this, and stop tryign to earn salvation by your pseudo obedience?
Go ahead and give the reference to the scripture you were speaking of, and I will prove to you more how wrong you are.
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,951
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this is too much. my brain is about to explode.

the guy who refuses to recognize the actual definition of the word sin just wrote an essay about watering down sin.

I think we have the most un-self aware person on the planet.

I have to put you on ignore. I can't take this personal trip through your thoughts and emotions anymore.

good luck with your personal psychology exam.
He will eventually be gone,, Just like he was before. Alot of the stuff he has done before is happening again.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
84
28
You seem to define "believe in Jesus" (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..) as believe in "everything Jesus says and commands in the Word" with the implication of "obeying everything that Jesus says and commands" as the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, which takes us right back to "performance based works salvation." I often hear that from works-salvationists, especially those who teach sinless perfection.
We have to do more than just have faith. Faith alone is dead. What sins would you like to keep?
You mentioned nothing about believing/trusting/relying in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which is what it means to "believe in Jesus" unto salvation. Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved through faith, NOT WORKS. God does not force believers to obey, yet works-salvationists continuously say "must or else" as if obeying Jesus is forced and legalistic.
I trust everything Jesus says. How do you get that it is not trust when Jesus says repent or perish---so then I trust him so I repent!
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
84
28
Okay, here (now!) you have selected a verse that is in the CONTEXT of Paul vindicating his apostleship (chpts 9-13 at least, if not the ENTIRE epistle). Here, he is not saying that all Christians of all times should continually "examine themselves" to be SURE they are REALLY saved. He is making a specific point to people who were questioning [and doubting] HIS APOSTLESHIP (and wanting to INSTEAD follow the well-spoken dudes who were not whom God sent), and he is saying, basically, "instead of examining ME [and bringing me up short, in your estimation], EXAMINE YOURSELVES to see whether you are in THE faith" BECAUSE (think about it, people) "IF YOU ARE [and he knows their internal answer to be 'YES!! We ARE!!'], and I am the one who presented the gospel to you, then YOU ARE MY PROOF [of apostleship]!!"


This is NOT a verse proving some kind of "lose-your-salvation" / "prove-your-salvation-by-some-means" kind of thing, nor a "works-salvation" or "keep your salvation" thing. This context is one that is typically wrenched of its true meaning, sadly.



["grieve not the Spirit..."]
You have not disproved anything that I had said.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,914
882
113
What is the difference between a contributor and an agent of provocation

An agent of provocation just intends to cause an emotional response.
A contributor wants to make a point, valid or not.

But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him.
2 Cor 2:14

To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.
2 Cor 2:16
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
2,187
482
83
I forgot to add to past post, a point I have made in the past (in other threads, I think, not this one), which is:

[quoting]

"disobedient" -

"Cognate: 544 apeithéō – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia)."

[end quoting]
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Go ahead and give the reference to the scripture you were speaking of, and I will prove to you more how wrong you are.
Oh?

No pride here. You think you are all that?

Lets see

John 3: 16 (belief)

John 4: 14 (Drink spiritual water)

John 6: 27, 35, 37-40, 50-51, 54-58 (eat food, bread, drink flesh and eat blood (the word))

Acts 2: 21 9 (call out on name of Jesus)

Acts 16: 31. (Call out on name of Jesus)

Romans 5: 9 - 10 (By Blood)

Romans 10: 9, 13 (Confess and Believe Jesus)

Eph 1: 13 - 14 (after hearing word (gospel) Believe)

Eph 2: 5 - 10 (Faith alone)

2 Tim 1: 9 (Not by works, but by grace)

Titus 3: 5 (Not by good deeds but by Gods mercy)


These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Go ahead and refute those passages, all of which make it clear HOW WE ARE SAVED! I am sure I can find many more
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I thought she might be warning me about a member that complains more and tries to get people banned. Thanks.
Lol. There are many banned members who are banned because her and peter and many others have ganged up on them. And remember, they are banned people who are her against the rules of the chatroom. Which is sin..

So that should tell you about them in a heartbeat
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,463
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Once again someone on this thread states that it is not necessary to obey by saying that obedience is CLEVERLY RENAMED OBEDIENCE....

As if obedience is something that needs to be hidden in our theology.

OBEDIENCE IS EVERYTHING.

You don't obey...
You're not saved.

Get your facts straight.
End of story.

John 14:15
Lovely, thank you.....

You remind me of a person who would NOT put pictures on his wall for fear that it was idolatrous and therefore disobedient and against the pure love he proclaimed for God.

And another thing I noticed about this person how self-righteous he was, wanting everyone to behave live like him, he was the righteous one, he was the obedient one, BUT he knew no peace or rest but was full of striving and condemnation.

The problem is you do not even understand or preach "obedience" within the entire framework of the Gospel message and the meaning of the word within that language

Secondly you do not even abide by the faulty theology you preach as has been pointed out to me

I pray daily no one listens to you, why???? because your faulty doctrine, which is not a salvation doctrine, is destructive and the complete antithesis to the grace of Jesus for a victorious, worthy walk.

You cannot even understand that Jesus was preaching under the law and that the revelation of God is progressive and one has to understand the end point to understand the beginning.

So your call for scripture is not fruitful, when one does not understand the final revelation of Jesus, and in isolation scripture can be made to prove much faulty doctrine as evidenced here daily:(

I am just a sinner saved by grace, so any sin I commit I can own up to......can you, we are all waiting???



5218 hypakoḗ (from191 /akoúō, "to hear" and 5259 /hypó, "beneath") – i.e. obedience – literally, "submission to what is heard" (WS, 695), i.e. obedience as the response to someone speaking. This refers both to an earthly voice and the Lord's voice (see 2 Cor 10:5; 1 Pet 1:2
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,613
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We have to do more than just have faith.
Not according to Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (and works? NO faith) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Faith alone is dead. What sins would you like to keep?
An empty profession of faith that remains alone - "barren of works" is dead. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with living faith (Ephesians 2:5-8). I'm not looking to keep sins. That is a straw man argument.

I trust everything Jesus says.
I've hear others who attend various false religions and cults (including Roman Catholicism and Mormonism) make the same claim, then also turn around and pervert the gospel.

How do you get that it is not trust when Jesus says repent or perish---so then I trust him so I repent
That's a lot of "I". Those who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation have already repented. You seem to re-define repent as "sinless perfection." Works-salvationists confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" and end up teaching salvation by works.
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,951
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To say that is against God.

Revelation 2212 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
Rewards, Given to Gods children, Gold silver precious stone. Wood Hay Straw..

Even after the work is tested, if nothing is left but ashes, As paul said, THEY ARE STILL SAVED.

Salvation is NOT A GIFT. When will you understand this??

We are told to watch our lives and doctrine closely.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Yep. It also says to test all spirits to see if they are from God. And to study to shew yourself approved a workman who needs not be ashmaed.

Believing in false gospel will end up in your destruction.




Paul wasn't saved yet on that road to Damascus. He had to do some things first.
He was tortured with blindness and fasted to where he did not eat or drink for three days.
He spent that time praying.
Can you imagine what Paul said in those prayers?
Oh how he must have wept and cried out for forgiveness.


Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.


You better know what you do. How do you not know what a sin is if the Bible tells you?
So Paul. Like Abraham, Was saved because he had faith

Paul did not save himself. And you will not find a place where paul said he was saved because he did any works..

He went, BECAUASE HE HAD FAITH

What par of that is so hard for you to comtprehend?

He was saved BEFORE he got up. God did not need him to prove his faith. I am sorry you fail to think God is so weak and so unknowing he needs us to prove ourselves before he saves us. And does not already KNOW our true heart and if our faith is real or not.

Stop trying to say you talk for God when you mock him, His character and his diety
So you say here you believe in repenting of sin? Then why are you going against me for saying we have to repent of sin?
I never said we have to repent of sin, WE CAN”T REPENT OF WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW. How in Gods name do you think you repented of sin, when you do not even inderstand what sin is (no person who is not yet saved understand truly what sin is?)