Not By Works
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Again and again I sent my servants the prophets, who said,
'Do not do this detestable thing that I hate!'
But they did not listen or pay attention; they did not turn from their wickedness or
stop burning incense to other gods.
Therefore, my fierce anger was poured out; it raged against the towns of Judah and
the streets of Jerusalem and made them the desolate ruins they are today.
Jeremiah 44:4-6
The sinners passions posses their very souls and only evil intent spews from their lips, condemning
anyone who suggests what they are doing is wrong.
'Do not do this detestable thing that I hate!'
But they did not listen or pay attention; they did not turn from their wickedness or
stop burning incense to other gods.
Therefore, my fierce anger was poured out; it raged against the towns of Judah and
the streets of Jerusalem and made them the desolate ruins they are today.
Jeremiah 44:4-6
The sinners passions posses their very souls and only evil intent spews from their lips, condemning
anyone who suggests what they are doing is wrong.
Okay, here (now!) you have selected a verse that is in the CONTEXT of Paul vindicating his apostleship (chpts 9-13 at least, if not the ENTIRE epistle). Here, he is not saying that all Christians of all times should continually "examine themselves" to be SURE they are REALLY saved. He is making a specific point to people who were questioning [and doubting] HIS APOSTLESHIP (and wanting to INSTEAD follow the well-spoken dudes who were not whom God sent), and he is saying, basically, "instead of examining ME [and bringing me up short, in your estimation], EXAMINE YOURSELVES to see whether you are in THE faith" BECAUSE (think about it, people) "IF YOU ARE [and he knows their internal answer to be 'YES!! We ARE!!'], and I am the one who presented the gospel to you, then YOU ARE MY PROOF [of apostleship]!!"
This is NOT a verse proving some kind of "lose-your-salvation" / "prove-your-salvation-by-some-means" kind of thing, nor a "works-salvation" or "keep your salvation" thing. This context is one that is typically wrenched of its true meaning, sadly.
["grieve not the Spirit..."]
This is NOT a verse proving some kind of "lose-your-salvation" / "prove-your-salvation-by-some-means" kind of thing, nor a "works-salvation" or "keep your salvation" thing. This context is one that is typically wrenched of its true meaning, sadly.
["grieve not the Spirit..."]
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Many contributors appear to have a long church history and hate the traditional
expressions of faith to the extent of calling all believers unbelievers.
The root of such positions is often hurt, anger, bitterness, hatred. Until that is
dealt with, seeing the truth and what one is doing is actually impossible.
I have met people caught in such bitterness and I myself have been tempted
to turn such hurt against people. It is pointing out until we are clear and sorted
nothing makes sense and sometimes our enemies are our friends.
expressions of faith to the extent of calling all believers unbelievers.
The root of such positions is often hurt, anger, bitterness, hatred. Until that is
dealt with, seeing the truth and what one is doing is actually impossible.
I have met people caught in such bitterness and I myself have been tempted
to turn such hurt against people. It is pointing out until we are clear and sorted
nothing makes sense and sometimes our enemies are our friends.
To say that is against God.
Revelation 2212 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
We are told to watch our lives and doctrine closely.
1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Paul wasn't saved yet on that road to Damascus. He had to do some things first.
He was tortured with blindness and fasted to where he did not eat or drink for three days.
He spent that time praying.
Can you imagine what Paul said in those prayers?
Oh how he must have wept and cried out for forgiveness.
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
You better know what you do. How do you not know what a sin is if the Bible tells you?
So you say here you believe in repenting of sin? Then why are you going against me for saying we have to repent of sin?
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You seem to define "believe in Jesus" (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..) as believe in "everything Jesus says and commands in the Word" with the implication of "obeying everything that Jesus says and commands" as the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, which takes us right back to "performance based works salvation." I often hear that from works-salvationists, especially those who teach sinless perfection.
You mentioned nothing about believing/trusting/relying in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which is what it means to "believe in Jesus" unto salvation. Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved through faith, NOT WORKS. God does not force believers to obey, yet works-salvationists continuously say "must or else" as if obeying Jesus is forced and legalistic.
You mentioned nothing about believing/trusting/relying in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which is what it means to "believe in Jesus" unto salvation. Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved through faith, NOT WORKS. God does not force believers to obey, yet works-salvationists continuously say "must or else" as if obeying Jesus is forced and legalistic.
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What is the difference between a contributor and an agent of provocation
An agent of provocation just intends to cause an emotional response.
A contributor wants to make a point, valid or not.
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him.
2 Cor 2:14
To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.
2 Cor 2:16
An agent of provocation just intends to cause an emotional response.
A contributor wants to make a point, valid or not.
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him.
2 Cor 2:14
To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.
2 Cor 2:16
E
Oh?
No pride here. You think you are all that?
Lets see
John 3: 16 (belief)
John 4: 14 (Drink spiritual water)
John 6: 27, 35, 37-40, 50-51, 54-58 (eat food, bread, drink flesh and eat blood (the word))
Acts 2: 21 9 (call out on name of Jesus)
Acts 16: 31. (Call out on name of Jesus)
Romans 5: 9 - 10 (By Blood)
Romans 10: 9, 13 (Confess and Believe Jesus)
Eph 1: 13 - 14 (after hearing word (gospel) Believe)
Eph 2: 5 - 10 (Faith alone)
2 Tim 1: 9 (Not by works, but by grace)
Titus 3: 5 (Not by good deeds but by Gods mercy)
These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Go ahead and refute those passages, all of which make it clear HOW WE ARE SAVED! I am sure I can find many more
No pride here. You think you are all that?
Lets see
John 3: 16 (belief)
John 4: 14 (Drink spiritual water)
John 6: 27, 35, 37-40, 50-51, 54-58 (eat food, bread, drink flesh and eat blood (the word))
Acts 2: 21 9 (call out on name of Jesus)
Acts 16: 31. (Call out on name of Jesus)
Romans 5: 9 - 10 (By Blood)
Romans 10: 9, 13 (Confess and Believe Jesus)
Eph 1: 13 - 14 (after hearing word (gospel) Believe)
Eph 2: 5 - 10 (Faith alone)
2 Tim 1: 9 (Not by works, but by grace)
Titus 3: 5 (Not by good deeds but by Gods mercy)
These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Go ahead and refute those passages, all of which make it clear HOW WE ARE SAVED! I am sure I can find many more
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Lovely, thank you.....
You remind me of a person who would NOT put pictures on his wall for fear that it was idolatrous and therefore disobedient and against the pure love he proclaimed for God.
And another thing I noticed about this person how self-righteous he was, wanting everyone to behave live like him, he was the righteous one, he was the obedient one, BUT he knew no peace or rest but was full of striving and condemnation.
The problem is you do not even understand or preach "obedience" within the entire framework of the Gospel message and the meaning of the word within that language
Secondly you do not even abide by the faulty theology you preach as has been pointed out to me
I pray daily no one listens to you, why???? because your faulty doctrine, which is not a salvation doctrine, is destructive and the complete antithesis to the grace of Jesus for a victorious, worthy walk.
You cannot even understand that Jesus was preaching under the law and that the revelation of God is progressive and one has to understand the end point to understand the beginning.
So your call for scripture is not fruitful, when one does not understand the final revelation of Jesus, and in isolation scripture can be made to prove much faulty doctrine as evidenced here daily
I am just a sinner saved by grace, so any sin I commit I can own up to......can you, we are all waiting???
5218 hypakoḗ (from191 /akoúō, "to hear" and 5259 /hypó, "beneath") – i.e. obedience – literally, "submission to what is heard" (WS, 695), i.e. obedience as the response to someone speaking. This refers both to an earthly voice and the Lord's voice (see 2 Cor 10:5; 1 Pet 1:2
You remind me of a person who would NOT put pictures on his wall for fear that it was idolatrous and therefore disobedient and against the pure love he proclaimed for God.
And another thing I noticed about this person how self-righteous he was, wanting everyone to behave live like him, he was the righteous one, he was the obedient one, BUT he knew no peace or rest but was full of striving and condemnation.
The problem is you do not even understand or preach "obedience" within the entire framework of the Gospel message and the meaning of the word within that language
Secondly you do not even abide by the faulty theology you preach as has been pointed out to me
I pray daily no one listens to you, why???? because your faulty doctrine, which is not a salvation doctrine, is destructive and the complete antithesis to the grace of Jesus for a victorious, worthy walk.
You cannot even understand that Jesus was preaching under the law and that the revelation of God is progressive and one has to understand the end point to understand the beginning.
So your call for scripture is not fruitful, when one does not understand the final revelation of Jesus, and in isolation scripture can be made to prove much faulty doctrine as evidenced here daily
I am just a sinner saved by grace, so any sin I commit I can own up to......can you, we are all waiting???
5218 hypakoḗ (from191 /akoúō, "to hear" and 5259 /hypó, "beneath") – i.e. obedience – literally, "submission to what is heard" (WS, 695), i.e. obedience as the response to someone speaking. This refers both to an earthly voice and the Lord's voice (see 2 Cor 10:5; 1 Pet 1:2
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Not according to Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (and works? NO faith) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
An empty profession of faith that remains alone - "barren of works" is dead. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with living faith (Ephesians 2:5-8). I'm not looking to keep sins. That is a straw man argument.
I've hear others who attend various false religions and cults (including Roman Catholicism and Mormonism) make the same claim, then also turn around and pervert the gospel.
That's a lot of "I". Those who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation have already repented. You seem to re-define repent as "sinless perfection." Works-salvationists confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" and end up teaching salvation by works.
An empty profession of faith that remains alone - "barren of works" is dead. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with living faith (Ephesians 2:5-8). I'm not looking to keep sins. That is a straw man argument.
I've hear others who attend various false religions and cults (including Roman Catholicism and Mormonism) make the same claim, then also turn around and pervert the gospel.
That's a lot of "I". Those who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation have already repented. You seem to re-define repent as "sinless perfection." Works-salvationists confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" and end up teaching salvation by works.
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Rewards, Given to Gods children, Gold silver precious stone. Wood Hay Straw..
Even after the work is tested, if nothing is left but ashes, As paul said, THEY ARE STILL SAVED.
Salvation is NOT A GIFT. When will you understand this??
Yep. It also says to test all spirits to see if they are from God. And to study to shew yourself approved a workman who needs not be ashmaed.
Believing in false gospel will end up in your destruction.
So Paul. Like Abraham, Was saved because he had faith
Paul did not save himself. And you will not find a place where paul said he was saved because he did any works..
He went, BECAUASE HE HAD FAITH
What par of that is so hard for you to comtprehend?
He was saved BEFORE he got up. God did not need him to prove his faith. I am sorry you fail to think God is so weak and so unknowing he needs us to prove ourselves before he saves us. And does not already KNOW our true heart and if our faith is real or not.
Stop trying to say you talk for God when you mock him, His character and his diety
I never said we have to repent of sin, WE CAN”T REPENT OF WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW. How in Gods name do you think you repented of sin, when you do not even inderstand what sin is (no person who is not yet saved understand truly what sin is?)
Even after the work is tested, if nothing is left but ashes, As paul said, THEY ARE STILL SAVED.
Salvation is NOT A GIFT. When will you understand this??
Yep. It also says to test all spirits to see if they are from God. And to study to shew yourself approved a workman who needs not be ashmaed.
Believing in false gospel will end up in your destruction.
So Paul. Like Abraham, Was saved because he had faith
Paul did not save himself. And you will not find a place where paul said he was saved because he did any works..
He went, BECAUASE HE HAD FAITH
What par of that is so hard for you to comtprehend?
He was saved BEFORE he got up. God did not need him to prove his faith. I am sorry you fail to think God is so weak and so unknowing he needs us to prove ourselves before he saves us. And does not already KNOW our true heart and if our faith is real or not.
Stop trying to say you talk for God when you mock him, His character and his diety
I never said we have to repent of sin, WE CAN”T REPENT OF WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW. How in Gods name do you think you repented of sin, when you do not even inderstand what sin is (no person who is not yet saved understand truly what sin is?)
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