Not By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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That sounds great. You post first all the scripture that say 'not of works', then I will show you exactly what works Paul is talking about.
In other words. Context goes right out the door.

This person is trying to earn his salvation. Tries to push it off or being obedient.. WHat he is teaching will lead people to think they may get to heaven, Only to find they wwere never known By God. No matter how many works they did.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Salvation had not happened when the jailer believed; for if it had, he would not have asked that question he asked, he would have been saved immediately, according to your mistaken beliefs.

Those people had to hear the message. The message is about repenting of your sins to have life.

The jailer asked the question

Acts 16:30-34
30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

And the answer was given in V31.

So according to V31 he was saved when he believed.

So he asked the question first and was given the answer.

He repented of the sin of unbelief.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Picking up where we left off since it is the same thing you replied to me earlier in the thread.

The "not of works" is Paul, is clarifying grace-based salvation in the face of a pervasive works-based understanding of salvation prevalent in the Judaism of his time.
1. You have scripture that says faith alone must have right action with it.
2. Since the beginning of time God has been telling humans to do right when it comes to sin.
3. God tells us many times to stop sinning and repent of those sins.
4. In the Old Testament God promises the Savior to those who repent of their sins.
5. Jesus wouldn't come until the people were prepared for Jesus by repenting of their sins.
6. John the baptizer prepared the way for the Lord by having people repent of their sins.
7. Jesus himself told the people to repent of their sins.
8. Jesus had his earthly ministry and spent the time teaching the people what to do and what not to do.
9. Jesus died and the OLD rules and regulation were nailed to the cross.
10. Everything that God has said from the beginning of time until Jesus died, rose again, and ascended did not change when Paul came along!
11. Jesus' words will never pass away.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Why would Paul write about that to gentiles in Ephesus?
For the same reason he writes

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

There were Jews who wanted the Gentile to be circumcised as part of their conversion to Christianity.

The Gentiles were aware of the law of the Jews.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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See Acts 10:44, Acts 11:15, Acts 16: 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

Did you hear that?

They had to hear the message that saves and it is the message that says to repent of your sins.

Acts 10:44-48

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Acts 11:15
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.

Acts 16:32
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.

So given the above verses which you quote as state the message in said verses is saying we need to repent of our sins, what are those sins?

Because I can't see what you are seeing.

Unless it has to do with baptism.

All of the above verses you quoted either contain baptism or the ones following mention baptism.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Why would Paul write about that to gentiles in Ephesus?
The Gentiles KNEW that they did NOT have a relationship with God because they did not get circumcised in the flesh and do the other WORKS OF THE LAW, which are the purification works.

The Gentiles KNEW that it was AGAINST the LAW for Jews to associate with the Gentiles.

The Gentiles KNEW they were called UNCLEAN because they did NOT do the purification works of the law.

Paul explained how the Gentiles could now be saved too when they used to be enemies of God and dead in their sins BECAUSE they did NOT do the purification works of the law WHICH ATONED FOR THEIR SOULS, which means it justified and made one right before God.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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That sounds great. You post first all the scriptures that say 'not of works', then I will show you exactly what works Paul is talking about.
One thing everyone is aware of who knows me is: Im a very very lazy man. I could not possibly look up all the not of works Scriptures. Here is my suggestion:

You do all the work for me, and kindly explain to me in Christian love exactly what works Paul is talking about. Deal? Sounds good to me!
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,921
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For the same reason he writes

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

There were Jews who wanted the Gentile to be circumcised as part of their conversion to Christianity.

The Gentiles were aware of the law of the Jews.
that they were normally called by people groups. That has nothign to do with the law. The jews always called them uncircumcized

What paul literally said is the people who were circumcized by the flesh (jews) called those who were not the uncircumcized or unclean people.

Paul was not saying to the eph people we have been saved by grace through faith not by works (of the law) as th elegalist is tryign to claim.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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I agree...But God says to be humble , and He will lift us up...
A humble heart is a beautiful sight to God...
Uh that's some of that OBEYING Jesus tells us to do BEFORE we get saved.
How do you think you get lifted up to the throne to live in Jesus if you never obeyed by humbling yourself?
If you never obeyed by humbling yourself then you were not exalted.
Pride closes the ears of those who believe they know everything , and are not opening to learning...

We are to lift each other up , not tear each other down ...
People who fight claiming we can lose our Salvation is a work from satan , putting fear into ones heart , God has not given us a spirit of fear , but a spirit of sound mind,,,
It is not of God to preach we don't have to obey. It is not a sound mind that says we don't have to obey.

Even Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul and that they are not sound in the mind, then Peter warns us to obey.
Read all of 2 Peter 3, and especially 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.
If we could lose what our precious LORD and Savior has done for us , we would be living in fear everyday...
Thank God for His promises...xox...
You don't live in fear every day if you are doing something about your sins! Which that fear helps you deal with those sins.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,921
16,578
113
The Gentiles KNEW that they did NOT have a relationship with God because they did not get circumcised in the flesh and do the other WORKS OF THE LAW, which are the purification works.

The Gentiles KNEW that it was AGAINST the LAW for Jews to associate with the Gentiles.

The Gentiles KNEW they were called UNCLEAN because they did NOT do the purification works of the law.

Paul explained how the Gentiles could now be saved too when they used to be enemies of God and dead in their sins BECAUSE they did NOT do the purification works of the law WHICH ATONED FOR THEIR SOULS, which means it justified and made one right before God.
The gentiles did not care about the jews, The jews were their enemy. They followed pegan Gods.

What you stated is not found in scripture You just made that stuff up
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
84
28
One thing everyone is aware of who knows me is: Im a very very lazy man. I could not possibly look up all the not of works Scriptures. Here is my suggestion:

You do all the work for me, and kindly explain to me in Christian love exactly what works Paul is talking about. Deal? Sounds good to me!
Have one of your friends do it for you.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
1. You have scripture that says faith alone must have right action with it.
James is not expounding how the the faith that justifies before God. He is in fact expounding on the faith that justifies before men, since God does not need to see the evidence of faith, while man absolutely does need that.

So James' justification is in the eyes of others.

So number is wrong.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,921
16,578
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Uh that's some that OBEYING Jesus tells us to do BEFORE we get saved.
How do you think you get lifted up to the thrown to live in Jesus if you never obeyed by humbling yourself?
If you never obeyed by humbling yourself then you were not exalted.

It is not of God to preach we don't have to obey. It is not a sound mind that says we don't have to obey.

Even Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul and that they are not sound in the mind, then Peter warns us to obey.
Read all of 2 Peter 3, and especially 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

You don't live in fear every day if you are doing something about your sins! Which that fear helps you deal with those sins.
A child of God does not live in fear every day because they was adopted into a royal family. With God as their father.

Not because they are doing somethign about their sins. Unlike you they are not foolish enough to think they are sinless. Nor are they untrustworthy of their father so much that they fear getting kicked out of his family for not meeting his standard (a standard no one can keep by the way)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
that they were normally called by people groups. That has nothign to do with the law. The jews always called them uncircumcized

What paul literally said is the people who were circumcized by the flesh (jews) called those who were not the uncircumcized or unclean people.

Paul was not saying to the eph people we have been saved by grace through faith not by works (of the law) as th elegalist is tryign to claim.
Yes that is true about the people groups.

The label is not isolated from their practices, it was because of their practices.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Uh that's some that OBEYING Jesus tells us to do BEFORE we get saved.
How do you think you get lifted up to the thrown to live in Jesus if you never obeyed by humbling yourself?
If you never obeyed by humbling yourself then you were not exalted.

It is not of God to preach we don't have to obey. It is not a sound mind that says we don't have to obey.

Even Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul and that they are not sound in the mind, then Peter warns us to obey.
Read all of 2 Peter 3, and especially 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

You don't live in fear every day if you are doing something about your sins! Which that fear helps you deal with those sins.
When I got saved , I did not have a clue about anything other that Jesus died a most horrific death for the sins of my life , past , present and future...
Only by the word of God and Jesus teaching me I have learned and still learning , and will carry on growing until the Lord calls me home...
It is only by feeding on the word of God that teaches us to live our lives before Christ...Before I understood what I know now , I was a babe in Christ , just like we all start out...
The day I got saved , I was in Christ , I did many things wrong , but our Lord corrected me...
Every night before I go to sleep , I tell God I am sorry for any sin I have unknowingly committed , and for any I am aware of , because the Holy Spirit is my guide ...
But I never go to sleep worrying if I am not saved , for the Holy Spirit tells my spirit that I am Gods daughter...xox...