Not By Works

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Apr 30, 2016
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God asks us to TRY to not sin anymore.. That's all, TRY.


Let me ask you,

Do you ever see a pretty girl and think "hmmmm she's hot"?

Or get angry and curse out the driver who cut you off?

You still sin, Jaime. So do I. So does everyone else here..

It is IMPOSSIBLE to be perfect. If we were, we would be Jesus.
Please post the verse where Jesus said to TRY not to sin anymore.
PLEASE.

Jesus said, GO AND SIN NO MORE.
Jesus said, BE PERFECT AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Humans cannot be perfect. Mortals cannot be sinless.

Immortals cannot live in a fallen world.

Vice versa.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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No one does number three.." .just another straw man..

We admit that it's part of the flesh that needs to be put to death and that the desires are NOT okay but wrong and need to be overcome THRU THE POWER GIVEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
I was actually surprised about this truth.
I was talking to muslims, and they assumed everything they did and reacted about
was them. So if they smelt a delicious food, and then wanted it then and there,
that was what was the right thing to do and have.

They had no cultural concept of association, linked to an response which then
went to a desire and resulted in an action.

So Muhammeds answer to sexual desire was to find your wife and have sex with her.

Equally covetousness, greed, envy, avarice, are all emotionally linked responses that
grow over time, and with fantasy can be fed and almost uncontrollable.

I worked with one man who fed sexual fantasy, and for him no situation was off limits.

On the flip side some feel the sexual response is actually the definition of inability
to be righteous, and original sin, where sex within marriage is also evil.

So though you may feel this is a straw man, in your thinking, your understanding
is simply not broad enough, and listening to lots of different commentators.

What I find disappointing is rather than thinking through the concept you come with
such an immediate response. You are sounding more like g7 by the day, lol.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Do you understand the concept of Alien righteousness? The imputed righteousness from Christ that justifies us?

God's righteousness is an alien righteousness imputed to the believer, not imparted. It is an external righteousness, not an internal righteousness. God imputes to us Christ's righteousness, thus our righteousness is something which happens outside of us.8 It cannot be gained by any external human work, however. It does not come from an external obedience to a set of laws, but by faith in Christ. Paul declared his desire to be found in Christ, not having his own righteousness, which came by the law, but the righteousness which comes from God and is received by faith (Philippians 3:9). Such a righteousness is not an inherent righteousness earned by the saint, but an alien righteousness that is credited to our account.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I do wonder if you actually read and understood the article you posted?

He speaks of positional justification and righteousness.
YIPPEEE!
We don't REALLY have to be sanctified. IT'S ALL POSITIONAL!!!!

I urge all to read the link.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Sanctification is an ongoing process and DIFFERENT from justification...the author is reformed so I take his views of others positions with a grain of salt.

But this quote is good

Millard Erickson said "sanctification is a process by which one's moral condition is brought into conformity with one's legal status before God.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
YIPPEEE!
We don't REALLY have to be sanctified. IT'S ALL POSITIONAL!!!!

I urge all to read the link.
Where in that post you responded to did you read sanctified?

You have reading issues.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
The guy defines perfect ...But You probably ignored that also...

When the "perfection" Scriptures are understood in their context it can be seen that absolute moral perfection is not envisioned. Immediately after confessing that he had not yet attained (Philippians 3:12-14), Paul speaks of himself as being perfect (Philippians 3:15). The Greek teleios, translated as "perfect," refers to and end, completion, or maturity, not absolute perfection. When Jesus said to be perfect, He was not referring to moral perfection, but spiritual maturity.
It's a long but decent article.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Do you understand the concept of Alien righteousness? The imputed righteousness from Christ that justifies us?
To whom are you speaking?

Do you assume I do not understand English?

Have I not spoken about imputed righteousness right here on this thread?

Is anything here ever read or is the belief system of a person just assumed?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I suggest you read MMD's post and learn exactly what "perfect" means in relation to US being perfect. It is a goal to strive for, to be perfect as God is. We TRY to be perfect--that is our goal, our end limit. We CANNOT be sinless in a sinful world..


Amen! How many people on CC claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time just like God the Father? Are we actually perfect "in that sense?" NO. Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect - AT Robertson points out - Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. The goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect for us will NOT become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

James 1:4 says - But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

James 3:2 says - For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

James 2:22 says - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? The NASB says "was perfected," the ESV says "faith was completed by his works."

I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect, holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
Please post the verse where Jesus said to TRY not to sin anymore.
PLEASE.

Jesus said, GO AND SIN NO MORE.
Jesus said, BE PERFECT AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
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You should read the link again.
And since YOU are intelligent, maybe you'll even understand it.

Then again...
Maybe you'll just take from it what you like....
i think you like the article (which i read in toto) because it fits with your dogma of losing salvation based upon oneself.

but since the author seems not to understand the Biblical doctrine of justification, what more can be said?

as i stated, there's a lot in the article i agree with (but srsly, oneness? you don't believe that, do you?).

i'm reformed. we see the Bible as one story; HIS story. we see God places us in Christ, who has promised He will lose none of those the Father has given Him. (Jn 6)

we see we must persevere, and we see we are kept by the power of God through faith. (1 Peter 1)
we see we are to cooperate with God in our sanctification (which is not justification), and not for one moment do we believe the ability to do this comes from us.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I was actually surprised about this truth.
I was talking to muslims, and they assumed everything they did and reacted about
was them. So if they smelt a delicious food, and then wanted it then and there,
that was what was the right thing to do and have.

They had no cultural concept of association, linked to an response which then
went to a desire and resulted in an action.

So Muhammeds answer to sexual desire was to find your wife and have sex with her.

Equally covetousness, greed, envy, avarice, are all emotionally linked responses that
grow over time, and with fantasy can be fed and almost uncontrollable.

I worked with one man who fed sexual fantasy, and for him no situation was off limits.

On the flip side some feel the sexual response is actually the definition of inability
to be righteous, and original sin, where sex within marriage is also evil.

So though you may feel this is a straw man, in your thinking, your understanding
is simply not broad enough, and listening to lots of different commentators.

What I find disappointing is rather than thinking through the concept you come with
such an immediate response. You are sounding more like g7 by the day, lol.
We are talking about folks here in the forum....not Muslims you know in your head.

Next time if you want to play pretend...give folks a hint that you are going off in theoretical fantasy land.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
Please learn the true meaning of perfect..


Please post the verse where Jesus said to TRY not to sin anymore.
PLEASE.

Jesus said, GO AND SIN NO MORE.
Jesus said, BE PERFECT AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
There is no such thing as sinless perfection.

That phrase is an oxymoron.

Sinless = perfect

Perfect + sinless= Jesus Christ

Perfect= sinless
The Greek word translated as "perfect" does not mean sinless but spiritually mature in Christ.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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The guy defines perfect ...But You probably ignored that also...



It's a long but decent article.
My dear Ariel,

Would I post a link that goes against what I believe?
How dumb do you think I am, anyway??

Did I EVER SAY I BELIEVE IN SINLSS PERFECTION.

BTW, the link does go on to speak to this.

Perfection means SPIRITUAL MATURITY.

Who here HAS spiritual maturity?
Perfect also means complete. Complete in our understand the words of Jesus.

You never explained why He spoke in parables.
If you had, and if you did understand, you'd be able to link that up with the idea of being "complete".

But, I'm not doing any lessons here.
Pearls, pearls, pearls.

You should be able to put the two together.

Perfect means complete.
Jesus spoke in parables.
Did He want it to be EASY to understand a parable?
Maybe not...
Why not?

You'll have to figure it out on your own since I haven't studied theology long enough.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
Maybe so but there is still no such thing as sinless perfection..

In that we can be sinless in a sinful world. It don't work that way..


The Greek word translated as "perfect" does not mean sinless but spiritually mature in Christ.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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The Greek word translated as "perfect" does not mean sinless but spiritually mature in Christ.
Those who are spiritually mature in Christ DO make an effort to remove sin from their life.

I sure hope you didn't pick out ONE SENTENCE that you liked and ignored all the rest that says that WE DO have to remove sin from our lives and to live apart from the world --- a sanctified life.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Maybe so but there is still no such thing as sinless perfection..

In that we can be sinless in a sinful world. It don't work that way..
Blue,
Are you a part of that sinful world?
Jesus said to come out of the sinful world !!

YOU'RE still in it !!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
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NO ONE COMPLETELY understands the words of Jesus..

Much of what the bible says, is alien to me..