Not By Works

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Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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Wrong. The whole point of salvation is to save wretched sinners who have no hope of saving themselves. Good works have nothing to do with the debt paid by Christ. In fact, when salvation is the issue, our best works are filthy rags to God.

I've noticed with Judaizers/ Pharisees such as yourself and a few others on this thread, "gift" doesn't actually mean gift, "free" doesn't really mean free, and all" doesn't truly mean all

Your kind has to change the definition of words to make them fit your works-for-salvation scam.
Good works do not save. Good works have nothing to do with the works of God in salvation. Yet we are saved UNTO good works.

Titus 2:14- Who gave himself for us, that (HINA of PURPOSE) he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

This verse says that the purpose of Jesus in giving Himself for us is so that (greek Hina indicates PURPOSE) He might redeem us as a people who are ZEALOUS of good works.

We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus (salvation) unto good works (result, not cause of good works) which GOD has ordained....(predestined for us).

Salvation is just not a ticket punch to heaven and then you can live as you please. You now belong to Jesus. You are bought with a price.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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How often do you sin daily?
You seem to want to know other peoples state before the Lord.
Please can you show by example what you mean?

I remember talking to a brother who got very annoyed about a demanding individual
with social skills problems due to a stroke. Now some would call this sin, others would
say it is learning the limits of how we react without sinning.

Paul described things like

26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
Ephesians 4:26-27

But if sin is so obvious and simple such an idea would never be expressed.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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Agreed. But if you sin daily, are you not living as you please?
A Christian should not be pleased to commit sin. Sinning is walking according to the flesh. WE do sin, but we are commanded to put to death the deeds of the flesh. If we live after the flesh, we will die, but if we by the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh, we shall live. Paul said to put off the old man (body of sin) and put on the New man which is created in Christ.

We as Christians are by no means perfect. But WE MUST be about the business of having the deeds of our flesh (put to death). This is accomplished by following the promptings of the Spirit instead of following the promptings of the flesh, by the Grace of God (for we can only accomplish it through Grace_)

I recommend the book "Mortification of the Flesh" by John Owen
 

Macabeus

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Dec 27, 2018
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Are you not living after the flesh when you sin daily?
We will always struggle with the flesh until the appearance of our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Yet, we are under an obligation to put to death the deeds of the flesh. This is something we do daily, by the efficacy of the Spirit that Christ has given us.

If we say "well, I sin daily, anyways" and think that is an excuse to not be about the business of putting the death the deeds of our flesh and of taking up our cross daily, we are allowing sin to rob and pillage us.

Again, I recommend "The Mortification of Sin" by John Owen. It is one of the most beneficial books I've ever read (apart from the Bible, of course)
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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As if you don't do the same when you consistently ask people if they are walking as Jesus walked.
You raise a good question. I look at Jesus as our example of success, as a challenge of something
we can achieve, as a demonstration of victory and love at work.

So when I hear Jesus saying love your enemy, I see I can do this.
When He says, carry your cross, He is saying I can help heal and carry the pain.

So for me Jesus is the example of the possible, as Paul said, aim for his example
as a positive affirmation of walking in the Spirit.

So this is why I ask this question, because I ask it of myself.

Now when you ask about sinning daily, I do not know your intention, or whether this is a question
you ask yourself or dwell on.

Now to a legalist mindset, one only sees the one failure and not the towering walk of progress.
Jesus says we need to see our progress and walk on.

So it is ironic you who claim not to be legalists view life like a legalist, and me who you say
is a legalist view the world full of grace, love and opportunity for transformation.
God bless you.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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How often do you sin daily?
Every time I do not meet the standard of perfection, which is only found in Jesus, I sin. SO your question is a loaded question. I never attain perfection, therefore I sin daily. But sin can be anything from murder to a good deed done with a less than perfect motive.

And these facts do not excuse us from the clear command and exhortation to put to death the deeds of the flesh. The deeds of the flesh are deadly. They inhibit growth, they prevent us from being fruitful, they hurt our testimony, they inhibit our effectiveness as witnesses, and MOST TRAGICALLY, they break the heart of our God.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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What if one does not?

Can one sin enough to the point of losing salvation?
Why would you ask such a question? I think that is the kind of question that a Christians should not need to ask. If you love God, you will not sin licentiously.
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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The doomed ex legalist

If one wakes up one day and realise one has lived a lie, and not fulfilled ones goals or
standards but been hypocritical, what do you do? Accept it is all defeat, or change ones
view of faith? A third option is to see the world with love and brokenness, and learn how
grace transforms us.

Ofcourse ex-legalists who now feel sin is the only reality, call freedom and righteousness
the lie, and those who believe Jesus and His walk decieved and truly evil. This sounds
exactly like Saul when he went out to destroy the first believers, because they preached
righteousness and love, fulfilling the law and walking in the Kingdom of heaven with Christ
as their King.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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You raise a good question. I look at Jesus as our example of success, as a challenge of something
we can achieve, as a demonstration of victory and love at work.

So when I hear Jesus saying love your enemy, I see I can do this.
When He says, carry your cross, He is saying I can help heal and carry the pain.

So for me Jesus is the example of the possible, as Paul said, aim for his example
as a positive affirmation of walking in the Spirit.

So this is why I ask this question, because I ask it of myself.

Now when you ask about sinning daily, I do not know your intention, or whether this is a question
you ask yourself or dwell on.

Now to a legalist mindset, one only sees the one failure and not the towering walk of progress.
Jesus says we need to see our progress and walk on.

So it is ironic you who claim not to be legalists view life like a legalist, and me who you say
is a legalist view the world full of grace, love and opportunity for transformation.
God bless you.
Amen. I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.

The problem is not ability, for Christ gives us the ability. The problem is "want to"

That's where TRANSFORMATION comes in.

God works in us both TO WILL and TO DO.

We need both works of Grace.

God bless you too.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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You do realize we have been declared perfect, don't you? (Hebrews 10:14)



Because we still have the "Old Man" and free will.

Could you please answer the question?
Yes, I realize we have been declared perfect. If I didn't know this, I would have given up a long time ago.

And your question is like asking "if a dog started meowing, would that make it a cat". We act according to our nature. If we are still habitually and constantly and continuouslywalking according to our old nature with no thought of repentance, we need to take inventory, examine ourselves if we are in the faith

Let the wise, understand
 

Melach

Active member
Mar 28, 2019
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What if one does not?

Can one sin enough to the point of losing salvation?
you have a very defeatist attitude, do you sin daily question. who sins daily the sins that forbid u from entering the kingdom? . instead of sin no more its go and sin some more? doesnt matter does it? you sin daily anyway so might as well.

what you are speaking is something that you hear or read no apostle ever say. its the language known today, but unheard of in apostolic times. philosophical questions and pondering but not biblical. gnosis.

1 corinthians 6:9-10 you do those things you wont inherit the kingdom. st. paul is saying even dont be deceived. he knew people would come who would say its ok, and deceive people in that issue.