Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Lol.

Is this the shark tank?

dcontroversal I can assure you im NOT Petey or SEOCHE either! Despite someone liking my posts.

Pit of vipers is more biblical. And their intention is to paralyse and stop people
from responding. "stamp out" "eternally banned" are phrases that come to mind.

The idea that we live at peace and Gods grace works through our lives carries little
weight with such as these.

 

[dcontroversal]

Their premise is everyone not like them is just adding to Jesus and His work to justify
themselves before God.

But no surprise there as to do anything "good" is evil because that detracts from Jesus.
So believers just become worse sinners to help Jesus look better exactly as Paul said
was not the way to follow Jesus.

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Rom 6

Problem is by their own lips they have not died to sin and continue in it daily, willingly,
and do not see this denies their whole theology in Christ and being Holy Temples of
Gods Spirit.

Peter....you have been banned twice and by being here = breaking the rules of this site....WHY were you banned before? WE will never take ONE serious and or even ponder what you say in light of the fact that by being here you prove that you have no honesty or integrity.....we also know that you equate the word of God to some psycho babble while denying the very definitions of the inspired words used by GOD.....when will you figure this out??

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Their premise is everyone not like them is just adding to Jesus and His work to justify
themselves before God.

But no surprise there as to do anything "good" is evil because that detracts from Jesus.
So believers just become worse sinners to help Jesus look better exactly as Paul said
was not the way to follow Jesus.

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Rom 6

Problem is by their own lips they have not died to sin and continue in it daily, willingly,
and do not see this denies their whole theology in Christ and being Holy Temples of
Gods Spirit.

The way I see it is that from both sides the obedience has been "bypassed" so to speak

From the Protestant side it was done by making salvation just a brain-muscle moving exercise. "I believe, therefore im now saved forever". Thus negating all repentance since hey, Christ paid it all right? Some protestants that are closer to catholics like Lutherans may also throw in a couple of rituals to keep the people happy.

On the Catholic side they decided to replace repentance with penance and a couple of Hail Marys and call it even steven with God. Maybe confess to a priest if you really feel bad. Anything but repentance.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Lol.
Is this the shark tank?
dcontroversal I can assure you im NOT Petey or SEOCHE either! Despite someone liking my posts.

I had an image of a nice discussion between people with different perspectives, putting emphasis
on different scriptures and learning to appreciate why some put an emphasis there and not here.

For me I could easily say I have total faith in Christ to deliver me to heaven and rest assured I am
saved to the uttermost, and though I can stumble He can deliver me through grace.

Now this language is worded a particular way I would be their friend, and blessed etc.
But I am after truth, and looking at questions of purity and cleansing, of knowing in my
heart His glory, which mean not letting things lie. For this I am then evil and lost, working
with satan. But I have to say one trouble with dealing with delusions, is affirming them is
never helpful, just declaring asking questions is part of our walk, Amen.

But maturity comes with wisdom in Christ, disputes with power and domination which is not
Gods way. God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The way I see it is that from both sides the obedience has been "bypassed" so to speak

From the Protestant side it was done by making salvation just a brain-muscle moving exercise. "I believe, therefore im now saved forever". Thus negating all repentance since hey, Christ paid it all right? Some protestants that are closer to catholics like Lutherans may also throw in a couple of rituals to keep the people happy.

On the Catholic side they decided to replace repentance with penance and a couple of Hail Marys and call it even steven with God. Maybe confess to a priest if you really feel bad. Anything but repentance.

I agree. That I why I have impressed with the Nazarene Church and its view, part of the Holiness movement
from Wesley etc God bless you

 

[TooFastTurtle]

I agree. That I why I have impressed with the Nazarene Church and its view, part of the Holiness movement
from Wesley etc God bless you

I will look up what the Nazarene church teaches, sounds like hebrew roots to me at first, but I will google it. I know Wesley was a Methodist so I could be wrong.

It looks good. I like the entire sanctification view they hold to. On the surface I only disagree with their baptism practices. I believe immersion is the proper way.

 

[dcontroversal]

The way I see it is that from both sides the obedience has been "bypassed" so to speak

From the Protestant side it was done by making salvation just a brain-muscle moving exercise. "I believe, therefore im now saved forever". Thus negating all repentance since hey, Christ paid it all right? Some protestants that are closer to catholics like Lutherans may also throw in a couple of rituals to keep the people happy.

On the Catholic side they decided to replace repentance with penance and a couple of Hail Marys and call it even steven with God. Maybe confess to a priest if you really feel bad. Anything but repentance.

Yeah I do not believe that....the scope of this thread is how salvation is obtained....I will not even argue the fact of eternal security and or the fact that we have all said that a genuine believer will bear fruit....We have discussed repentance which means to change one's mind and agree with God....we have discussed Chastisement, why and who....and NO ONE has peddled being disobedient......We have discussed the dual usage of sanctification and how one is legally rendered innocent (justified) by belief without the deeds and works of the law.......

By the way.....there is a group that DOES not identify as either Protestant and or Catholic........just saying....to lump ALL into those two groupings is to not be fully honest with the fact that NOT all identify with those two groups.....just saying

 

[Rosemaryx]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying here but I have to disagree.

Is it not possible that those who know their son cannot face God because they do not know what God would do?

By this I mean they are waiting for "You have sinned once to many and so now your out, no more forgiveness is available to you"

FHS, there are belivers like that. They fear that God will reject them.
It's not that they do not want resolution, they want it alright.
But they can be stuck in the resolution of "I'm a dirty sinner, I obviously do not love God and as a result God cannot love me"

Is that the truth or is it a lie?
We know the answer but the person who has been fed the lie eventually will belive it's the truth.

So I disagree with your first premise.
With regards to your last comment one needs to indentify what that resolution is and that is based on what they truly believe what God thinks about them.

What I find interesting about you is that you come across as someone who does not struggle with what you have posted above, yet you make such a statement about others.

If so why so?

To be perfectly honest to tell someone to stop sinning, or stop a sin pattern is not the answer. If they could then they would not seek help.

Dealing with cause of the affect is what is needed.

And everyone single one of us will die as a sinner , but thank God for His Son Jesus Christ who nailed them to the cross...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

What was the difference between Judas and Peter?
Peter had faith Jesus would forgive him because he knew Jesus.
Judas did not and did not understand the Kingdom.

Faith is knowing however big the mess we are in, Jesus is willing to come and work
with us. This is why salvation works, because He is saying work with me, do not give
up, I will work it through.

How deep are you willing to go to find real love? How deep do you think Jesus can
go to bring us back? There is no limit, but we need to believe that about Him.
And the cross is that statement. God did everything that can be done, but we need
to believe it because we see it, because it is literally there.

And we know He can do it, because He will change us. It takes time, it takes struggles,
failure, ups and downs but if the price is paid and the way is walked we will arrive.
It is His promise.

I think maybe you believe the lost who have given up are still saved.
Nope. They have made their choice, and this is the eternal division between the elect
who know the essence of love and cleansed heart and those who walk away broken
and lost.

Peter LOVED Jesus , Judas did not , that was the difference...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

I will look up what the Nazarene church teaches, sounds like hebrew roots to me at first, but I will google it. I know Wesley was a Methodist so I could be wrong.

It looks good. I like the entire sanctification view they hold to. On the surface I only disagree with their baptism practices. I believe immersion is the proper way.

Agree with the bolded

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter LOVED Jesus , Judas did not , that was the difference...xox...

AMEN Rose and JUDAS was never saved and then lost it......

a. Not all are clean
b. A devil from the beginning
c. A thief holding the bag
d. THE (DEFINITE ARTICLE) Son of Perdition

etc.....

 

[dcontroversal]

And everyone single one of us will die as a sinner , but thank God for His Son Jesus Christ who nailed them to the cross...xox...

AMEN.....PAUL, the apostle that turned the world upside down, writes almost half the N.T. stated in present tense toward the end of his life...

I AM the NUMBER ONE chief sinner among men....even DANIEL, who was ONE of THREE men that GOD said could deliver himself by his righteousness IF IT WERE POSSIBLE is found confessing his sins.........

 

[mailmandan]

I will look up what the Nazarene church teaches, sounds like hebrew roots to me at first, but I will google it. I know Wesley was a Methodist so I could be wrong.

It looks good. I like the entire sanctification view they hold to. On the surface I only disagree with their baptism practices. I believe immersion is the proper way.

You agree with the Church of the Nazarene doctrine of entire sanctification doctrine? Do you believe that you have reached sinless perfection? I’m familiar with holiness movements, in which some are more like “holier than thou” movements.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Pit of vipers is more biblical. And their intention is to paralyse and stop people
from responding. "stamp out" "eternally banned" are phrases that come to mind.

The idea that we live at peace and Gods grace works through our lives carries little
weight with such as these.

I am sorry , but I have to say this as it is the truth as I find it...
I have noticed a pattern with you , I do not even know how to address you as myself and others are sure you are Peter Jens , only God truly knows , but this is what I want to say to you...

I have noticed that when the people who are against Saved for Eternal life with Christ , OSAS , and they are quiet in the thread , your post are quite nice to read , but as soon as someone comes in against OSAS , you become aggressive in your comments , like they give you aminition against us , just what I see , no malice...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

I am sorry , but I have to say this as it is the truth as I find it...
I have noticed a pattern with you , I do not even know how to address you as myself and others are sure you are Peter Jens , only God truly knows , but this is what I want to say to you...

I have noticed that when the people who are against Saved for Eternal life with Christ , OSAS , and they are quiet in the thread , your post are quite nice to read , but as soon as someone comes in against OSAS , you become aggressive in your comments , like they give you aminition against us , just what I see , no malice...xox...

Excellent observation Rose....

 

[TooFastTurtle]

You agree with the Church of the Nazarene doctrine of entire sanctification doctrine? Do you believe that you have reached sinless perfection? I’m familiar with holiness movements, in which some are more like “holier than thou” movements.

Nobody will be sinless this side of heaven. Christians will be free from defiant rebellion against God however. Anyone in that behavior will not get in to the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Read the following verse, it says the Corinthians USED TO do that but now they were sanctified and purified of that, proving its not impossible pie in the sky.

I hope I dont know whats coming next, I hope that what is coming next is not equivocating sins unto death to sins not unto death. Such a biblical distinction exists, in both testaments too: Numbers 15:28-30 1 John 5:16 & many others.
This will probably be just me using up the skin on my fingers by typing this, but I will still give an illustration in case you or someone else reading havent heard of this before, but I suspect you already have:

Stubbing your toe and letting out a curse word is not sinning willfully, or unto death as John says. But planning a robbery IS a sin unto death and willful. Its a heinous act that takes a lot of time to plan so its not just done accidentally.

There is that difference. But I know that eternal security believers often reject all such biblical distinctions to hold on to their doctrine. They quote James that says broke one law broke them all, while ignoring the other verses.
All James is saying is that you only need to violate the law of God once to be considered a "law breaker" and under the curse of the law. from which Jesus came to set us free from

 

[azamzimtoti]

I have noticed that when the people who are against Saved for Eternal life with Christ , OSAS , and they are quiet in the thread , your post are quite nice to read , but as soon as someone comes in against OSAS , you become aggressive in your comments , like they give you aminition against us , just what I see , no malice...xox...

Must be some kind of OSASmosis

 

[dcontroversal]

Nobody will be sinless this side of heaven.

I hope I dont know whats coming next, I hope that what is coming next is not equivocating sins unto death to sins not unto death. Such a biblical distinction exists, in both testaments too: Numbers 15:28-30 1 John 5:16 & many others.
This will probably be just me using up the skin on my fingers by typing this, but I will still give an illustration in case you or someone else reading havent heard of this before, but I suspect you already have:

Stubbing your toe and letting out a curse word is not sinning willfully, or unto death as John says. But planning a robbery IS a sin unto death and willful. Its a heinous act that takes a lot of time to plan so its not just done accidentally.

There is that difference. But I know that eternal security believers often reject all such biblical distinctions to hold on to their doctrine. They quote James that says broke one law broke them all, while ignoring the other verses.
All James is saying is that you only need to violate the law of God once to be considered a "law breaker" and under the curse of the law. from which Jesus came to set us free from

No...we would quote that which was written unto the saved...Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more.....or we might reference DAVID and how under the LAW he should have been put to death, but by GRACE and MERCY he did not get what he deserved and the INNOCENT son of DAVID paid the price....or we MIGHT quote the legal ACCOUNTING term given by JESUS when he said IT IS FINISHED = PAID in full or we might even reference GOD using CHASTISEMENT and how HE ONLY WHIPS SONS for their disobedience....but hey...if you want to think a sin will cause you to lose salvation....HOW many times have you LOST IT? AND if you have SINNED once and lost it...good luck in hell because HEBREWS states it is IMPOSSIBLE to GET it BACK if it was POSSIBLE to lose it.....

THAT is what we would probably reference

 

[dcontroversal]

Great.....another sinless, I help JESUS keep myself saved religionist salvation loser.......wow......................

 

[azamzimtoti]

Stubbing your toe and letting out a curse word is not sinning willfully, or unto death as John says. But planning a robbery IS a sin unto death and willful. Its a heinous act that takes a lot of time to plan so its not just done accidentally.

Lol, so is this just hypothetical or do you know a Christian that planned a robbery?

There is that difference. But I know that eternal security believers often reject all such biblical distinctions to hold on to their doctrine. They quote James that says broke one law broke them all, while ignoring the other verses.
All James is saying is that you only need to violate the law of God once to be considered a "law breaker" and under the curse of the law. from which Jesus came to set us free from

This is somewhat of a mishmash of what James was trying to get over to his readers.