Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Nobody will be sinless this side of heaven. Christians will be free from defiant rebellion against God however. Anyone in that behavior will not get in to the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Read the following verse, it says the Corinthians USED TO do that but now they were sanctified and purified of that, proving its not impossible pie in the sky.

I hope I dont know whats coming next, I hope that what is coming next is not equivocating sins unto death to sins not unto death. Such a biblical distinction exists, in both testaments too: Numbers 15:28-30 1 John 5:16 & many others.
This will probably be just me using up the skin on my fingers by typing this, but I will still give an illustration in case you or someone else reading havent heard of this before, but I suspect you already have:

Stubbing your toe and letting out a curse word is not sinning willfully, or unto death as John says. But planning a robbery IS a sin unto death and willful. Its a heinous act that takes a lot of time to plan so its not just done accidentally.

There is that difference. But I know that eternal security believers often reject all such biblical distinctions to hold on to their doctrine. They quote James that says broke one law broke them all, while ignoring the other verses.
All James is saying is that you only need to violate the law of God once to be considered a "law breaker" and under the curse of the law. from which Jesus came to set us free from

Physical death (1 Corinthians 11:30) or spiritual death? (Revelation 2:11).

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context. 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Great.....another sinless, I help JESUS keep myself saved religionist salvation loser.......wow......................

Did you say this about me?

First thing I said in my previous post was "Nobody will be sinless this side of heaven". I also said earlier I reject the premise of helping Jesus save me. Wanna talk about honesty? Need a mirror?

This is the danger of once saved always saved in display. Brings in esoteric bible interpretation mixed in with a freedom to continue in sin because "Jesus paid it all" while denying the very thing. Obviously lip service is paid to "a true born again believer would not do this, a true born again believer will fight sin" but what we are seeing in the churches all over the planet where this doctrine reigns is the opposite effect. WHEN does the sin stop? That is my rhetorical question.

Didnt take long for me to be falsely branded, just like Macabeus said happened to him few pages ago. I will not be discussing with you anymore or will be responding, dont want to get dragged into similar drama play.

God bless you and show you the way and hopefully you start preaching for righteousness. I know many who have left the OSAS group

 

[Magenta]

^ ^ Inspired by Dcon

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be lost the following MUST FAIL or be flat lies.....

a. I will lose nothing but raise it up the last day
b. We are kept by the power of God through the faith that JESUS begins, finishes and completes
c. We are saved to the UTTERMOST
d. We are held in the Father's hand and Son's hand and NO man can remove us
e. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit UNTO the day of redemption
f. Jesus promises to NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
g. JESUS did not pay our sin debt in full and it is finished was never finished
h. Eternal and Everlasting actually means temporal
I. Nothing can separate us from the love of God
j. The gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE (SALVATION IS A GIFT)
k. We are born again from INCORRUPTIBLE seed
l. The good shepherd will leave the 99 to find the 1 that wanders
m. When I see the blood I will pass over you (in judgment)
n. Where sin abounds grace abounds the more
o. The mercy of the Lord endures forever
p. There is no need of and or use of chastening....
q. 1st Corinthians 3 and works of wood, hay and stubble burnt yet SAVED
r. The Corinthian fornicator cut lose for destruction of the flesh so SPIRIT remains saved
s. The spirit born of incorruptible seed DOES NOT SIN (1st John)

and ON and ON and ON and ON

 

[dcontroversal]

^ ^ Inspired by Dcon

AMEN MAGENTA.............

 

[dcontroversal]

Did you say this about me?

First thing I said in my previous post was "Nobody will be sinless this side of heaven". I also said earlier I reject the premise of helping Jesus save me. Wanna talk about honesty? Need a mirror?

This is the danger of once saved always saved in display. Brings in esoteric bible interpretation mixed in with a freedom to continue in sin because "Jesus paid it all" while denying the very thing. Obviously lip service is paid to "a true born again believer would not do this, a true born again believer will fight sin" but what we are seeing in the churches all over the planet where this doctrine reigns is the opposite effect. WHEN does the sin stop? That is my rhetorical question.

Didnt take long for me to be falsely branded, just like Macabeus said happened to him few pages ago. I will not be discussing with you anymore or will be responding, dont want to get dragged into similar drama play.

God bless you and show you the way and hopefully you start preaching for righteousness. I know many who have left the OSAS group

SO what...and if you believe Macaroni....I suggest go read the thread and then ask why many have him on ignore....

a. You say sin = loss of salvation false
b. If that is the case I can DEDUCE that you help JESUS keep yourself saved
c. The bolded above....the NORMAL false accusation by people like you that believes it can be lost
D...WHO cares.....those that left the truth to peddle a weak inept JESUS that cannot keep one saved imply Jesus is a liar, weak god and inept....

 

[azamzimtoti]

I just believe His own are saved to the uttermost as the KJV says.

(John 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.)

H.A. Ironside has some very good args in regards to "Eternal Security of the Believer" or OSAS, but I already understood "security" well before reading any of his writings.

 

[dcontroversal]

I just believe His own are saved to the uttermost as the KJV says.

(John 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.)

H.A. Ironside has some very good args in regards to "Eternal Security of the Believer" or OSAS, but I already understood "security" well before reading any of his writings.

It is ridiculous to believe that JESUS can save someone at their worst and then NOT be able to keep them saved after having paid the entire sin debt of the world...it is rather ignorant to say the least.

 

[azamzimtoti]

It is ridiculous to believe that JESUS can save someone at their worst and then NOT be able to keep them saved after having paid the entire sin debt of the world...it is rather ignorant to say the least.

I can't even imagine being in a situation where a person would be doubting their salvation to the end. Do they go around on tippy toes in case they stumble and lose "it".

 

[BillG]

What was the difference between Judas and Peter?
Peter had faith Jesus would forgive him because he knew Jesus.
Judas did not and did not understand the Kingdom.

Faith is knowing however big the mess we are in, Jesus is willing to come and work
with us. This is why salvation works, because He is saying work with me, do not give
up, I will work it through.

How deep are you willing to go to find real love? How deep do you think Jesus can
go to bring us back? There is no limit, but we need to believe that about Him.
And the cross is that statement. God did everything that can be done, but we need
to believe it because we see it, because it is literally there.

And we know He can do it, because He will change us. It takes time, it takes struggles,
failure, ups and downs but if the price is paid and the way is walked we will arrive.
It is His promise.

I think maybe you believe the lost who have given up are still saved.
Nope. They have made their choice, and this is the eternal division between the elect
who know the essence of love and cleansed heart and those who walk away broken
and lost.

You seem to not know what I believe.
Maybe ask before making an assumption.
The lost are not saved.
The broken who seek are saved?

Peter had faith that Jesus would save him?
Bible verse to back this up please.

You wont find it?
He fled in tears, denied him.
HAD TO BE RESTORED,

Peter do you Agape me?
What was his response?
Truth is you do not know the elect.
If you did then you are God and playing God.
Given you are not then don't play games with people's lives.
You will answer for this.

You need to understand people and where they are at.
You talk the talk but I think you are not willing to walk the walk with what you preach.

That's why I don't think you are PJ.

Your posts make me very sad.
No love or compassion.

 

[dcontroversal]

I can't even imagine being in a situation where a person would be doubting their salvation to the end. Do they go around on tippy toes in case they stumble and lost "it".

All I know is that a salvation that can be lost MUST be maintained by man and what he does or does not do...that takes the emphasis off of Christ, steals HIS glory and places it squarely on the back of man....BY DEFAULT this is what is implied....!!!

The bible does NOT peddle a lottery ticket HOPE, but rather a CONFIDENCE of something GUARANTEED..........it is ETERNAL LIFE, EVERLASTING LIFE not temporal LIFE based upon performance......!!

 

[dcontroversal]

You seem to not know what I believe.
Maybe ask before making an assumption.
The lost are not saved.
The broken who seek are saved?

Peter had faith that Jesus would save him?
Bible verse to back this up please.

You wont find it?
He fled in tears, denied him.
HAD TO BE RESTORED,

Peter do you Agape me?
What was his response?
Truth is you do not know the elect.
If you did then you are God and playing God.
Given you are not then don't play games with people's lives.
You will answer for this.

You need to understand people and where they are at.
You talk the talk but I think you are not willing to walk the walk with what you preach.

That's why I don't think you are PJ.

Your posts make me very sad.
No love or compassion.

His mannerisms, what he says, how he states it and the verbiage he uses......indicate heavily who he is bro.......regardless.....his doctrine falls short of biblical.....

 

[BillG]

I can't even imagine being in a situation where a person would be doubting their salvation to the end. Do they go around on tippy toes in case they stumble and lost "it".

Yes they do, and it pisses me of.
It really does.

Big head greater than thou Pharisees who make people feel like shit because they struggle or have a particular sin pattern yet hate it.

They judge but have no desire to come alongside.
The very people God despises.

Brood of vipers, white washed tombs.

At this moment I'm very angry.
How dare anyone sit on the judgement seat of Jesus, the very seat you come before and will be judged from.

 

[dcontroversal]

You know...JESUS was clear.....MANY (PLENTEOUS in NUMBER) will come before his throne expecting to enter the Kingdom.....they will CALL JESUS LORD x 2 and will set forth the MANY WONDERFUL works they have done in his NAME as PROOF......we can glean from this that...

a. They were a member of some religious denomination that identified as Christian
b. Part of their gospel included works plus faith

MOST so called Christian, religious denominations teach a cafe blend of FAITH plus SOMETHING to either get saved or keep salvation...

GALATIANS is clear..this MAN made theology is false, different than what Paul preached, had no power to save, is double cursed and ALL that believe it are called FOOLISH and BEWITCHED

FAITH ALONE is what saves a man ETERNALLY....do not conflate JAMES with PAUL....nor does JAMES contradict PAUL. nor does JAMES peddle a FAITH plus works cafe blend gospel of salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

Love and truth go hand in hand......sometimes the truth cuts and divides asunder even though it is full of love!!

 

[BillG]

His mannerisms, what he says, how he states it and the verbiage he uses......indicate heavily who he is bro.......regardless.....his doctrine falls short of biblical.....

On one hand I see it, but on the other I don't.
That's based on behind the scenes communication.
I will leave it at that.
Love is the key, communication of the love is the key.
Walking the mile and beyond is the purpose we should all seek to do.

Many here don't want to walk the mile but would rather beat them, kick them and then more.

A very sad reality is that belivers shoot the wounded rather than nurse them.

I don't often get angry but at this moment in time I'm very angry.
Catching up with posts and responding to some.

How dare anyone sit on the judgement seat that Jesus sits on.

They accuse us of easy believeism, we can sin all we want and still be saved.
Quote the biggies like adultery and so on.

Yes I believe OSAS, perseverance, saved by and kept by God.
As a result I obviously believe I can shag any other women I want and still be saved and so can others.

My blood is boiling at the moment.

Sorry for the spout.

 

[BillG]

Love and truth go hand in hand......sometimes the truth cuts and divides asunder even though it is full of love!!

The concept of true love is perveted today bro.

Love is not a feeling but an act of one's will. It's called AGAPE.
Not self seeking.

 

[dcontroversal]

On one hand I see it, but on the other I don't.
That's based on behind the scenes communication.
I will leave it at that.
Love is the key, communication of the love is the key.
Walking the mile and beyond is the purpose we should all seek to do.

Many here don't want to walk the mile but would rather beat them, kick them and then more.

A very sad reality is that belivers shoot the wounded rather than nurse them.

I don't often get angry but at this moment in time I'm very angry.
Catching up with posts and responding to some.

How dare anyone sit on the judgement seat that Jesus sits on.

They accuse us of easy believeism, we can sin all we want and still be saved.
Quote the biggies like adultery and so on.

Yes I believe OSAS, perseverance, saved by and kept by God.
As a result I obviously believe I can shag any other women I want and still be saved and so can others.

My blood is boiling at the moment.

Sorry for the spout.

No need to apologize to me migo.....it fires me up too....the devaluing Christ attitude runs deep migo....and I flat despise those that devalue the work and promises of JESUS.........sickens me

 

[dcontroversal]

The concept of true love is perveted today bro.

Love is not a feeling but an act of one's will. It's called AGAPE.
Not self seeking.

Oh I agree.....some mushy gushy watered down emotional feeling.......

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nobody will be sinless this side of heaven.

What would you say is the "source" of "sin/sins" in the life of a believer/saint/Christian? (since you are agreeing that it is possible for a believer to sin after being saved).

And like others have asked (in this thread), where do you draw the line if not at one "sin," is it at twenty? thirty? Where is the point that a believer/saint/Christian "loses, or forfeits" salvation??

Christians will be free from defiant rebellion against God however. Anyone in that behavior will not get in to the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Read the following verse, it says the Corinthians USED TO do that but now they were sanctified and purified of that, proving its not impossible pie in the sky.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is listing persons identified by those things. And then it says "such WERE some of you" (not "some of you DID [used to DO] such things/sins"). Identification. Such WERE...you. [i.e. LIARS lie... ADULTERERS commit adultery... STALKERS stalk... etc]

Then it is important to read this section (verses 9-11, quoted below) ALONG WITH its entire context, which I will quote also verses 19-20 (for brevity) -

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,19-20 [blb] -

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor coveters, not drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And some of you were such. But you were washed [middle voice], but you were sanctified [passive], but you were justified [passive], in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
[...]
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have from God? And you are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body.