Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

a

Amen brother, and I testify the truth of this as one who has sat in church thinking I was "saved" because I repeated a prayer and was declared saved. But I was deceived and in the flesh still, but always heard "we will always sin", "you can be saved by the power of our almighty Creator and not change for 100 years", and all this stuff. Now this is where I qualify this so please read carefully, on a technical level these things are true, I am on a walk, in the process of being molded to look more like Him by His power in me. I do still sin, but now when I see my sin I am empowered to actual face it in truth and by His power start to change it.

This is why I always speak of His power to change, I have to testify of this because it's the work He has done in me, and I will forever speak about how I feel a Christians main message should not be "we still sin", I will proclaim the POWER of Jesus to Change us, by His grace, through faith in Him He awakens our dead spirit and reconciles it to His, forever changing our very nature by restoring us to how we were created to be. Praise His glorious name!!! Making us truly whole in His glory. I will forever proclaim that no one, no matter how He draws them, can have this happen and not work. You will do so by nature, if you are not born again you can not please God, and when we are born again we now WANT to please Him by nature. That said we will also point ALL credit, honor, and praise we may get from the world directly to Him as a testament of this power, because outside of Him we would not do the things we now do. That's why He alone rightly gets all glory. Amen.

That has always been my main issue with this, was not so much "your wrong", but more just trying to share how that message being central all the time helped to keep me deceived into thinking I was saved when I wasn't. I agree with you, but for some reason trying to explain that the works have nothing to do at all with getting or staying saved, but if there are no works, and we should also be more clear about defining what a work is, then it should be warning bells for that person. It's not for me to judge you in this matter at all, or anyone else, this is a matter of you being truly reconciled to Him, when this is the case you know it, and any change in you is a work. The main point is you are now spiritually reconnected to Him and the Spirit of God now dwells in you. You are now capable of pleasing the Father, and I can only speak for myself, but the closer I get to Him the hotter that fire burns. I long to be pleasing to Him, for His glory. I want none ever. They have to understand that what Mac is talking about is not chains, it is again just the result of this re-connection.

Hi Jim,

I assume all believers are like me, and have been purified, though with struggles or issues of
desires and tensions.

What is for some purity is far from them, or even the belief God can achieve this, or ever has.
For them I must be a lying hypocrite, exalting myself as higher than them, that I do not have
burdens or impossible conflicts that are unresolvable.

I was told that my sharing was evil because it laid impossible burdens on others without me
helping in any way. And this is true, if Jesus cannot resolve the heart, cleanse us and purify
us through faith, confession, repentance, acceptance and forgiveness.

Unbelief in Gods acceptance and forgiveness, refusing to open ones heart and let Him in,
means one is crushed by Jesus's words, because they cement the failure we have.

It starts with faith knowing God can purify us, if we open up and admit all that we are, be honest, and do
not pretend about anything, and ask Him to help, working through our issues, hiding nothing.
It is truly this simple, and this powerful.

But we need to die to ourselves and start to live to God. And we need to set no limits on what
God challenges us about, and nothing is off limits to Him or His word.

My friends, can you do this? Jesus is willing to walk with you, and change you, but you need
to open the door and ask Him in, in faith and belief, knowing His love overwhelms and transforms,
like nothing else. God bless you as you reach out to Him and let Him minister to you, Amen.

 

[PS]

Is love a fruit? Does it bear fruit?

1 John 3: 14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

If we do not love, we abide in death.

And what is the biblical definition of love?

1 John 3: 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

I would say, it is what we do that bears fruit, and that we are motivated in "deed and in truth" (1 John 3:18) by our love for others.

So love is the motivator, but on its own love does nothing, it needs to be followed up by action.

 

[PS]

Would you say the following would be instances of bearing fruit?

a. Sharing your testimony

b. The Holy Spirit using your changed life to draw someone to Jesus.

c. Telling someone about the Grace of God.

Does it take years to be able to start doing these things? Not necessarily. Only if your choices cause it to take years.

People do start witnessing for God from day one, but the fruit would be when someone gives their heart and life to Him.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

People do start witnessing for God from day one, but the fruit would be when someone gives their heart and life to Him.

I agree with you that fruit of the word taking root is conversion, but the fruit is the word.

In the parable of the seed and sower, the seed in the word of God. The plant that grows from the seed,
creates more seeds that then spread to others and create more plants.

If one takes the word, Jesus, is the word of God, then the fruit of Jesus is our hearts, is words of God
coming from us. We often devalue words, they are just words not actions, except to speak words
take actions, and the words come from the heart and testify to their source, the word, Jesus.

With words, God spoke creation into existence. Christ is the word made flesh, and His words give
us life, the promises, words, upon which our whole lives are based and live.

Words have little value in the world, because they are too often betrayed, belittled, are said to
please, gratify, put at ease others. But in Christ, words are eternal and powerful, the real fruit
of Christ in our hearts, Amen.

 

[dcontroversal]

The Bible speaks of "good men" as did Jesus when he said "thou good and faithful servant" in Mat 25:21. Other examples of ordinary people being called "good" are Psa 112:5 and Tit 1:8.

When Jesus asked the rich young ruler, "Why do YOU call me good? No one is good, save one, that is, God" he was asking a leading question. Then he told the rich young ruler, "there is another who is good and that is God." Jesus never said he was God outright, but he did imply it. Those who understood what Jesus meant held it against him and crucified him because he made out he was God.

Does not change the truth of what I said and or the scriptures I posted.....In the flesh there is NOT one man that is GOOD.........the word NONE is clear.........so.........!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Only God could say to one and not the other, "To day thou shalt be with me in paradise."

Dude...what is your point......what I posted was valid, have never said JESUS was not God and the bible does not contradict itself.....so........how does your point eve apply to what I said??????

 

[Melach]

Dude...what is your point......what I posted was valid, have never said JESUS was not God and the bible does not contradict itself.....so........how does your point eve apply to what I said??????

i think it might be oneness pentecostal

 

[dcontroversal]

what I am saying is this- it could be day 1, it could be day 10, it could be day 100. it could be.......

we are to bear fruit, we should not time frame how long it takes , because the Bible lays out no time frame for this to manifest.

Is he still going on and on about that.......you know.....I planted wheat, corn and red top turnips in one of my food plots.....after a good rain it all sprouted a few days ago.....but....No turnips, corn or headed out wheat just yet..............

 

[dcontroversal]

i think it might be oneness pentecostal

Yeah...not for sure.........but it did not have anything to do with what I said.........

 

[PS]

Dude...what is your point......what I posted was valid, have never said JESUS was not God and the bible does not contradict itself.....so........how does your point eve apply to what I said??????

Don't take it personally, I wasn't getting at you, your post provided an ideal springboard to teach others about the deity of Jesus and thank you for the opportunity.

 

[gb9]

Is he still going on and on about that.......you know.....I planted wheat, corn and red top turnips in one of my food plots.....after a good rain it all sprouted a few days ago.....but....No turnips, corn or headed out wheat just yet..............

here is my point on this- a few years ago, a planted a tabasco pepper plant. within 6-8 weeks, it shot up to about six feet tall.

then, nothing. no blooms, just a tall green plant. june, nothing. july, nothing, aug. nothing. sep. nothing. thought several times about pulling it up and tossing it down in the woods, but, it was at the far edge of my garden spot, not in my way or bothering anything, so i just left it.

then, in early oct. it exploded in blooms, then In a few weeks, hanging full of peppers.

that is why no one should put any time frame on how long it takes to bear fruit,

 

[Macabeus]

I would say, it is what we do that bears fruit, and that we are motivated in "deed and in truth" (1 John 3:18) by our love for others.

So love is the motivator, but on its own love does nothing, it needs to be followed up by action.

Biblical love is love in action. (1 John 3:18)

 

[Macabeus]

People do start witnessing for God from day one, but the fruit would be when someone gives their heart and life to Him.

...and a new believer can't bear that kind of fruit?

How long did it take for Andrew and Phillip and the Samaritan woman to start bringing people to Jesus once they met Him.

(see John 1 and John 3)

 

[dcontroversal]

here is my point on this- a few years ago, a planted a tabasco pepper plant. within 6-8 weeks, it shot up to about six feet tall.

then, nothing. no blooms, just a tall green plant. june, nothing. july, nothing, aug. nothing. sep. nothing. thought several times about pulling it up and tossing it down in the woods, but, it was at the far edge of my garden spot, not in my way or bothering anything, so i just left it.

then, in early oct. it exploded in blooms, then In a few weeks, hanging full of peppers.

that is why no one should put any time frame on how long it takes to bear fruit,

I fully agree........I cannot get over the fact that JESUS clearly compared the saved to things seen in nature when it came to bearing fruit.....and that is why I make my stand on growth and maturity.............and having grown up with gardens, planting gardens as an adult, working my cousins farm, and as a kid on my Aunt's farm I am well versed in how plants bear, how long it takes, how some bear little, some abundance, some are stunted due to weeds or a lack of fertilizer etc.............I am not even going to address him anymore....I have tried to engage and it always comes back to some flippant, mouthy, accusatory comment.........

 

[PS]

Does not change the truth of what I said and or the scriptures I posted.....In the flesh there is NOT one man that is GOOD.........the word NONE is clear.........so.........!!

It does indeed and when Jesus said, "there is NOT one man that is GOOD" he was actually saying everyone is a sinner.

So when Jesus said that, he was moving the conversation from the physical i.e. the rulers money, to the spiritual by saying nobody is good, we all need God, follow me and you will have treasure in heaven. Only Jesus could promise treasure in heaven.

 

[Macabeus]

People do start witnessing for God from day one, but the fruit would be when someone gives their heart and life to Him.

But it is God that gives the increase, so why does it matter how mature the testifier is?

...and if a new believer is bound and destined to be unable to bear fruit, what hope do they have in sharing the gospel, if they have to wait to mature to bear fruit?

 

[PS]

...and a new believer can't bear that kind of fruit?

How long did it take for Andrew and Phillip and the Samaritan woman to start bringing people to Jesus once they met Him.

(see John 1 and John 3)

But as has been said, the time can vary. Have you ever done what Andrew and Phillip did?

 

[Macabeus]

I fully agree........I cannot get over the fact that JESUS clearly compared the saved to things seen in nature when it came to bearing fruit.....and that is why I make my stand on growth and maturity.............and having grown up with gardens, planting gardens as an adult, working my cousins farm, and as a kid on my Aunt's farm I am well versed in how plants bear, how long it takes, how some bear little, some abundance, some are stunted due to weeds or a lack of fertilizer etc.............I am not even going to address him anymore....I have tried to engage and it always comes back to some flippant, mouthy, accusatory comment.........

Your interpretation of an analogy does not apply anymore than the parable of the wheat and tares indicates that from seeding to harvest (spreading the Gospel to end of age) is the same ammount of time as it takes wheat to grow.

If your method of interpretation is valid, the end of the age happened in the First Century.

Sower- preaching the word

harvest- end of the age

The parable spans all the way to the end of the age and the Judgement.

But wheat only takes a few months to grow

This is why you do not use the method of interpretation you are using.

 

[Macabeus]

But as has been said, the time can vary. Have you ever done what Andrew and Phillip did?

Yes, I actually told someone the Gospel the night I got saved and they ended up giving their life to Christ a few weeks later.

...and I never denied that the time can vary

One plants, one waters, but God gives the increase. If this is so, what does it matter how long the planter or waterer has been saved

The gospel is so simple a child can understand it and share it.

 

[PS]

Yes, I actually told someone the Gospel the night I got saved and they ended up giving their life to Christ a few weeks later.

...and I never denied that the time can vary

I hope the Lord continues to use you in His work.