Not By Works

[Guojing]

Do you then take away from the WORD of TRUTH which is the gospel of our SALVATION this obedience to God which Jesus commissioned his disciples to do(to teach) with the promise of being with them 'til the end (the promise of the Holy Spirit to be upon them/salvation)?

The Great Commission was under the Law dispensation too. There was a discussion about this here

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...mission-irrelevant-for-the-church-now.182210/

Some questions you may consider here too, point 2 is obviously the more relevant one since you are quoting the most popular version of the GC, the Matthew version.

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The cold hard truth of the Gospel
One cannot loose by being bad what one did not earn by being good!!!
Most just can't come to believe it.....far too offensive.

This sounds so reasonable. But it suggests that salvation is not the ability to be like Jesus.
But let us look at two images. A dog returning to its vomit, a pig wallowing in mud.

These two ideas are in darkness we do not see sin and its effects in our lives or the resolution
to sin, and evil in our hearts. It is like vomit, or wallowing in mud, which when see is run
away from and left behind. Or to put it another way, love has died, we are hard and do not care
how we effect others, we simply push on for our own benefit.

But now Jesus comes and calls our hearts, calls to our love, calls to our conscience, our care, our desire to
walk righteously, to be loving and kind, compassionate and not destroy out of hurt, bitterness and
envy. Meeting Jesus is meeting the perfection of what we desire to be like, to be free from sin, and
these things that drag us down.

Now through repentance and faith, our hearts are purified and cleansed and we can start again.
We can start to know what purity and cleanliness is, what loving and dedication looks like.

So this very walk can be destroyed by denying sin is death and destruction, to returning to the evil
of envy, jealousy, proving our value, fighting for recognition, being the best and making sure others
know this. Because the whole point of Christ is to open the door to life and reality in His love, in
standing in communion with Him and by Him and to have His love flowing from us to all around.

So this is a different perspective than the one you created UG.
But this is the gospel and our walk, into eternity, and if you have the Holy Spirit, He testifies this
to you through His word.

It is why Paul says this about the impure,

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5

10 the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.....
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life
Rev 21

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The Great Commission was under the Law dispensation too. There was a discussion about this here

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...mission-irrelevant-for-the-church-now.182210/

Some questions you may consider here too, point 2 is obviously the more relevant one since you are quoting the most popular version of the GC, the Matthew version.

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

One obvious problem I have with dispensationalism, is it tries to say the gospels are not relevant
to us today. The problem with this is simply they were written by the church to help the church
know God and His ways. They were written in the "church dispensation" and they are the same as
Pauls, Peters, James, Johns writings.

And the core point of the gospel is the walk of love in Christ, which was shown by Christ on earth,
and was empowered by the Holy Spirit working in every believer now on earth today.

To use Pauls words, everyone in Christ has the Holy Spirit, you cannot be in Christ without the
the Holy Spirit.

9 if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8

9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit,
if the Spirit of God lives in you.
Rom 8

So many have hard hearts, and have locked love away and deny the truth of the need for purity
and being clean before the Lord. Everything else in their lives flows from this reality or lack
of it. Without Christ and love in our hearts everything is lost.

 

[corazondeldei]

The Great Commission was under the Law dispensation too. There was a discussion about this here

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...mission-irrelevant-for-the-church-now.182210/

Some questions you may consider here too, point 2 is obviously the more relevant one since you are quoting the most popular version of the GC, the Matthew version.

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

I don't want to doubt your intention but your sounding like...
never mind still praying for you bro.

NIV1984 John 14:21-26
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

I just hope that the Holy Spirit reminds you of what Jesus spoke of that you may not go beyond what is written and give you a spirit of discernment.

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 2:10-16
but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

God bless.

 

[Guojing]

One obvious problem I have with dispensationalism, is it tries to say the gospels are not relevant
to us today. The problem with this is simply they were written by the church to help the church
know God and His ways. They were written in the "church dispensation" and they are the same as
Pauls, Peters, James, Johns writings.

And the core point of the gospel is the walk of love in Christ, which was shown by Christ on earth,
and was empowered by the Holy Spirit working in every believer now on earth today.

To use Pauls words, everyone in Christ has the Holy Spirit, you cannot be in Christ without the
the Holy Spirit.

9 if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8

9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit,
if the Spirit of God lives in you.
Rom 8

So many have hard hearts, and have locked love away and deny the truth of the need for purity
and being clean before the Lord. Everything else in their lives flows from this reality or lack
of it. Without Christ and love in our hearts everything is lost.

Do you teach others to do the following?

"Sell all you have'.
'do not go into the Gentiles'
'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel',
'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.

Do you realized Jesus commanded all these in the book of Matthew?

Why don't you follow these instructions now if you truly believe that "They were written in the "church dispensation" and they are the same as Pauls, Peters, James, Johns writings."?

You divide the Word, all of us do that, it is just the extent in which we understand why we do so.

 

[Guojing]

I don't want to doubt your intention but your sounding like...
never mind still praying for you bro.

I just hope that the Holy Spirit reminds you of what Jesus spoke of that you may not go beyond what is written and give you a spirit of discernment.


God bless.

Actually I have mentioned in the other thread about the unforgivable sin, that you also go beyond what was written. You don't realized it?

 

[corazondeldei]

Actually I have mentioned in the other thread about the unforgivable sin, that you also go beyond what was written. You don't realized it?

Unless you prove it.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Do you teach others to do the following?

"Sell all you have'.
'do not go into the Gentiles'
'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel',
'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.

Do you realized Jesus commanded all these in the book of Matthew?

Why don't you follow these instructions now if you truly believe that "They were written in the "church dispensation" and they are the same as Pauls, Peters, James, Johns writings."?

You divide the Word without even acknowledging it, all of us do that, it is just the extent in which we understand why we do so.

Jesus was on a ministry to the people of God, Israel, or the jews as they were, to complete the
message of the gospel to the world, about the ways of God and His life.

In between time specific messages, spoken to individuals, He taught the principles of the Kingdom.
These principles where carried on by the apostles.

"Sell all you have" - We follow Jesus in our lives today, rather than physically following a man on earth.
Our security is in Christ, and all is given to Him to exercise as He deems fit.

Our ministry in the Holy Spirit is to go to the world preaching the gospel etc.
This is because we now have the Kingdom of heaven on earth, being temples of the Holy Spirit.

And yes this is a different age, but not how you describe it, but as the fulfilment of the promise of
the cross and our dwelling with God.

As Paul describes we walk in the Spirit, fulfilling the law through love.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus was on a ministry to the people of God, Israel, or the jews as they were, to complete the
message of the gospel to the world, about the ways of God and His life.

In between time specific messages, spoken to individuals, He taught the principles of the Kingdom.
These principles where carried on by the apostles.

"Sell all you have" - We follow Jesus in our lives today, rather than physically following a man on earth.
Our security is in Christ, and all is given to Him to exercise as He deems fit.

Our ministry in the Holy Spirit is to go to the world preaching the gospel etc.
This is because we now have the Kingdom of heaven on earth, being temples of the Holy Spirit.

And yes this is a different age, but not how you describe it, but as the fulfilment of the promise of
the cross and our dwelling with God.

As Paul describes we walk in the Spirit, fulfilling the law through love.

So you do agree that the instructions in the 4 Gospels, some don't apply to us today correct?

 

[Melach]

1. The spirit that is born again from above does not sin, is eternally sealed in Christ, cries out to God, always seeks to do what is right and needs to be fed the word to mature, grow and prosper spiritually

2. The above is still bound in a fallen dead body of sin that is contrary and not subject unto the law of God and NEITHER IN DEED CAN BE...It is dead in sin, and contrary to the truth and where all sin comes from <--The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life

The battle ground is the MIND.....and which ever nature gets fed the most will be be the dominant nature....I.E...the transformational process described in Romans 12:1-2 and make no mistake.....all believers are on that journey....and all gambits of growth from Carnal to Spiritually Mature and everything in between.....!!!

thanks dear friend. i understand that. i can also feel that inside of me like there is two persons sometimes i think im crazy lolz

 

[Melach]

So you do agree that the instructions in the 4 Gospels, some don't apply to us today correct?

this is true. Jesus even said to one healed go give sacrifice like in the temple.

Jesus lived under moses system. i believe st.paul had the revelation for gentiles

 

[Guojing]

this is true. Jesus even said to one healed go give sacrifice like in the temple.

Jesus lived under moses system. i believe st.paul had the revelation for gentiles

Yep, and he certainly made sure we Gentile Christians don't ever forget that.

He calls the gospel of grace, the mystery that the ascended Jesus gave to him, as "my gospel". And Paul said it not once but at least three times

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.” – Romans 2:16

“Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25

“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” – 2 Timothy 2:8

 

[Budman]

Yes, two natures. YOU decide which one you walk in every day. I learned this in sunday school when I was in elementary school.

Which is what I've been saying all along about all sin being a choice. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Budman]

No, I put words in bigger letters because you are either half blind or have a serious reading comprehension issue

That would include everyone here because you pretty much do it to everyone. And you always do it when you're losing a debate - which is often.

 

[Budman]

But you and Bud seem to be saying that we are slaves to sin. We are not slaves to sin.

Then stop sinning.

 

[Budman]

Bud extracts like 10% of them and omits 90%

You want me to comment on every single word you write as if they're all theological gems, when in fact it's usually just the same drivel you've posted a hundred times before that's been addressed a thousand times before.

You yourself don't answer every single line of posts. So get over yourself.

 

[Budman]

Bud is trying to teach that we as Christians are still (present tense) slaves to sin.

Yet again, Paul certainly said he was in Romans 7. Now you be sure to let us all know the moment you've stopped sinning daily.

Oh, and stop talking about me when I'm not here!

(Which was your complaint in the other thread)

 

[Budman]

That was in reply to the adversarial, antagonistic Budman.

Yeah, that guy who calls people "sharks" and says folks are "half blind or have a serious reading comprehension" when he shouts at them.

Oh wait...that would be you.

 

[Budman]

Constantly? You mean you and I NEVER walk after the Spirit?

Sure we can walk in the Spirit. But as far as sinning goes: Yep - constantly. Daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. Either by thought, word, or deed.

And you know it.

 

[Budman]

Yep, I am blind for disagreeing with Bud when he says Christians are slaves to sin.

Can a person serve two masters?

Boy, you talk about me a lot when I'm not here. Am I in your head?