Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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This is a very difficult topic to deal with but is easily proven to be false using the scriptures.The many conditional statements that accompany certain statements about salvation support this understanding.It is hard to avoid these passages.For example:

Galatians 6:
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.


However in the long run,arguing this point is usually a fruitless discussion,as persons in life experiences and in the scriptures who fall into a backslidden state are said by proponents of OSAS to have never been truly saved ,in order to support their erroneous doctrine. The scriptures do affirm the safety of the elect but it is obvious that all who become saved may not all be the elect and hence some who were saved will not maintain the faith in Christ which will ensure their salvation.As the scriptures teach:

Hebrews 3:
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God.

It is possible the doctrine should be OEAE.






Explain.
None of what you posted above has to do with salvation.....get your context right or keep being wrong in your interpretation....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You hate eternal security? or Do not believe in eternal security?
Noooooo of course not

I hate when people state ..."they were never saved to begin with"

I guess that is not really a doctrine....but if you view a person at a bad point/day in their life we could make that judgement on every single one of us.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Noooooo of course not

I hate when people state ..."they were never saved to begin with"

I guess that is not really a doctrine....but if you view a person at a bad point/day in their life we could make that judgement on every single one of us.
I was wondering hah.......a prime example of qualifying what we say ;)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Noooooo of course not

I hate when people state ..."they were never saved to begin with"

I guess that is not really a doctrine....but if you view a person at a bad point/day in their life we could make that judgement on every single one of us.
I should have taken a bigger snippet of the Safswan's paragraph....reading over the post definitely not clear in my response....yikes!!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The scriptures do affirm the safety of the elect but it is obvious that all who become saved may not all be the elect and hence some who were saved will not maintain the faith in Christ which will ensure their salvation.As the scriptures teach:
This seems like you recognize there are passages that clearly teach OSAS, but you are not understanding or interpreting correctly the passages that seem to on the surface contradict OSAS so you are trying to find some compromise.

I think it is better to come to a solid understanding of the truth of our irrevocable place in Christ when we are born again.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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This seems like you recognize there are passages that clearly teach OSAS, but you are not understanding or interpreting correctly the passages that seem to on the surface contradict OSAS so you are trying to find some compromise.

I think it is better to come to a solid understanding of the truth of our irrevocable place in Christ when we are born again.
What he does not understand is the fact that the words "elect" and "saints" are BOTH applied UNTO the SAVED.....

One is descriptive of who we are in Christ and the Other of where we stand in Christ........as in.....

Saints --->who we are in Christ as HOLY
Elect ----->who we are in Christ as CHOSEN

A very simple, broken down set of truths

If one has been born again from above by faith they are a SAINT and one of the ELECT.......there is no such thing as partially saved
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I am sure it comes in very handy!!

I wish I has some Marine in me too.....it is a tuff world!
It does.....I had a dude with road rage that was completely in the wrong try to force me off the road today.....he followed me cussing me, flipping me off etc. and then got right up next to me and tried to force me into the guard rail until I asked him if he wanted to play while holding up my Ruger 9............with saucer plate eyes and crap in his pants he suddenly decided to do a 90 degree turn into Walmart and leave me alone.....

NOT in a threatening way I might add
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Good truth..........based upon a complete study of the words................and one of the many truths that MUST be applied to the body presence of Christ and our gathering together unto HIM to accurately understand the timing of it ;)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
It does.....I had a dude with road rage that was completely in the wrong try to force me off the road today.....he followed me cussing me, flipping me off etc. and then got right up next to me and tried to force me into the guard rail until I asked him if he wanted to play while holding up my Ruger 9............with saucer plate eyes and crap in his pants he suddenly decided to do a 90 degree turn into Walmart and leave alone.....
Wow :eek:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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HAHAHHA well.......if your going to harass a former MARINE........get ready to pay the piper......... ;) HAHHA I am not normally like that and will put up with A LOT.....but this guy was needing to be tuned up......

If I see him again I will tell him about JESUS and remind him that his attitude was very poor seeing how he was totally in the wrong ;)
 
Sep 6, 2014
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biblehub.com
Works are the after effect of God's calling and saving a soul by grace through faith and not by works.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Do you have a faith that truly loves your neighbor as yourself?

James 2:14-17
What doth it profit
, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

See verse 23?
Abraham believed God, he had grace through faith first.

That is what caused Abraham's works in verse 21.

How about Rahab in verse 25?

Hebrews 11:31
By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not
, when she had received the spies with peace.

James is not talking about praying for dead people. <---Dead works faith!
James is not talking about performing vain rituals in some religious place. <--- Dead works faith!
James is not talking about giving your used clothing and belongings to your church. <---Dead works faith!
James is not talking about showing favoritism to a particular denomination and adhering to and promoting it's bylaws. <---Dead works faith!
James is not talking about putting on a outward appearance of faith.<-- Dead works faith!

The works James is talking about are the works that come after grace through faith has already begun; that grace through faith that comes from God in Christ Jesus before time began.

Even atheists and the most evil men can deceive others by performing so called good deeds and putting on a show of faith outwardly.

Again.......

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Do you have a faith that truly loves your neighbor as yourself?

Grace through faith saves and not by works!

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith
; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Noooooo of course not

I hate when people state ..."they were never saved to begin with"

I guess that is not really a doctrine....but if you view a person at a bad point/day in their life we could make that judgement on every single one of us.

I am not understanding your reasoning, as I USED TO BE ONE OF THOSE. I thought I was saved because I sat on a pew most SUNDAYS in my earlier life, then at the age of 29, I KNEW I never was Saved to begin with. My thinking that sitting on a church pew, Saved me, almost cost me a one way trip to hades/hell. I had tried to commit suicide three times that last week before I was born again. I know if HE did not SAVE me when He did, I would have been a suicide victim.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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HAHAHHA well.......if your going to harass a former MARINE........get ready to pay the piper......... ;) HAHHA I am not normally like that and will put up with A LOT.....but this guy was needing to be tuned up......

If I see him again I will tell him about JESUS and remind him that his attitude was very poor seeing how he was totally in the wrong ;)

That happened to me once. I had a guy swing around be and blocked my car at a stop sign, as I was going was on the road to the gun range. I have know idea what he thought I did wrong. He got out his car and was cussing and swearing, and even smashed his fists against the car door window a couple times, while I loaded my 9 mm pistol out of his eyesight. I knew I would have to shoot if he broke my window, and thankfully a lady was in her car next to me, and she stayed there as witness. I noticed both arms were covered with tattoos, and figured he was an ex-inmate, and his severe anger problem landed him in prison once already. But thankfully after he vented for a few minutes, he flipped me off and left.