Not By Works

[safswan]

It is not profound at all....they were never saved.....and why?

Faith plus works for was their dogma <--Galatians states clearly this has NO POWER to save!!!

How can anyone with even a modicum of understanding believe that the persons who were rejected by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 were rejected because they had practiced faith plus works.Read what the passage says:

Matthew 7:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


The one who is saved does the will of the father in contrast to the one who does iniquity and who will not be saved.What is iniquity?

Iniquity - anomia

Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Strongs Definition
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:

According to Vine's; lit.lawlessness(a,negative,nomos, law) is used in a way which indicates the meaning as being lawlessness or wickedness.

Hence the persons who were not saved were actually working miracles,casting out devils and prophesying while still committing acts of lawlessness and wickedness.They were lying, stealing, adulterous pastors,ministers,elders, etc.

The fact that they were not obeying the word of God is confirmed by the statements of Jesus further in the passage:

Matthew 7:
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


Two classes of persons here.

1)Those who hear and do the Lord's will - saved.
2)Those who hear and do not the Lord's will - not saved.

Hence even though empowered by God to do great things,being outside of the will of God will cause many who thought they were saved to be rejected.Many in this position are deceived by the fact that they still experience miracles and the power of God is manifesting in their lives or the lives of their ministers/pastors.Therefore they fail to recognize their departure from,or failure to be in,the will of God or they may feel their actions/works of righteousness or works of unrighteousness has no bearing on their salvation since the power of God is working in their lives..A rude awakening awaits them as they cry out Lord,Lord....

 

[corazondeldei]

No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD.

These people on this thread mock God.

Do they teach obedience to God? No. It will destroy their man made doctrines.

Do they teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD?
They attack, insult and blaspheme those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD and is a clear evidence of what they teach.

NIV1984 Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

 

[VCO]

I am sure it comes in very handy!!

I wish I has some Marine in me too.....it is a tuff world!

The way I see it, JESUS authorized us take self defense weapons to protect life, family, and property.

There were highwayman (Robbers) that would not hesitate to take you life to rob you of the coins your pocket, even in the day of JESUS.

Here is proof:

Luke 22:36 (ESV)
36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

The Self Defense Sword of Jesus Day, would have looked like this:

In this day and age, the Self Defense Weapon of choice would be Pistol.

If you are considering a weapon for safety, BE SURE to sign up for an NRA SAFETY CLASS.
Yes, that is the sidearm that the Marines carry, only the medal is black, where this is nickle platted.

Other non-lethal choices VERY inexpensive Pepper Spray and Stun Gun, but look how close you have to be to the Bad Guy:

 

[UnderGrace]

I am not understanding your reasoning, as I USED TO BE ONE OF THOSE. I thought I was saved because I sat on a pew most SUNDAYS in my earlier life, then at the age of 29, I KNEW I never was Saved to begin with. My thinking that sitting on a church pew, Saved me, almost cost me a one way trip to hades/hell. I had tried to commit suicide three times that last week before I was born again. I know if HE did not SAVE me when He did, I would have been a suicide victim.

Yes, understood, that is your understanding about yourself perhaps you did not have the full understanding of the Gospel, however, that is different than someone viewing another person's life over the span of time and then when they mess up deciding they were never saved to begin with...

I think we need to be careful taking one statement from scripture about false teachers (1John2:19) as some do, not stating you, and then using it as a way to prop up OSAS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is a very difficult topic to deal with but is easily proven to be false using the scriptures.The many conditional statements that accompany certain statements about salvation support this understanding.It is hard to avoid these passages.For example:

Galatians 6:
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.


However in the long run,arguing this point is usually a fruitless discussion,as persons in life experiences and in the scriptures who fall into a backslidden state are said by proponents of OSAS to have never been truly saved ,in order to support their erroneous doctrine. The scriptures do affirm the safety of the elect but it is obvious that all who become saved may not all be the elect and hence some who were saved will not maintain the faith in Christ which will ensure their salvation.As the scriptures teach:

Hebrews 3:
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God.

It is possible the doctrine should be OEAE.






Explain.

So eternal life does not mean eternal life

Thank you, It is good to know you do not trust God..

Good luck trusting yourself!!

I love how you self righteous save yourself by your own deeds people love to slam on people who trust christ, then claim you are so trustworthy..

Remember, God said your works are as filthy bloody rags, if that is what you think you can offer God and expect him to save you, Your mistaken my friend.

 

[UnderGrace]

How can anyone with even a modicum of understanding believe that the persons who were rejected by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 were rejected because they had practiced faith plus works.Read what the passage says:

Matthew 7:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


The one who is saved does the will of the father in contrast to the one who does iniquity and who will not be saved.What is iniquity?

Iniquity - anomia

Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Strongs Definition
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:

According to Vine's; lit.lawlessness(a,negative,nomos, law) is used in a way which indicates the meaning as being lawlessness or wickedness.

Hence the persons who were not saved were actually working miracles,casting out devils and prophesying while still committing acts of lawlessness and wickedness.They were lying, stealing, adulterous pastors,ministers,elders, etc.

The fact that they were not obeying the word of God is confirmed by the statements of Jesus further in the passage:

Matthew 7:
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


Two classes of persons here.

1)Those who hear and do the Lord's will - saved.
2)Those who hear and do not the Lord's will - not saved.

Hence even though empowered by God to do great things,being outside of the will of God will cause many who thought they were saved to be rejected.Many in this position are deceived by the fact that they still experience miracles and the power of God is manifesting in their lives or the lives of their ministers/pastors.Therefore they fail to recognize their departure from,or failure to be in,the will of God or they may feel their actions/works of righteousness or works of unrighteousness has no bearing on their salvation since the power of God is working in their lives..A rude awakening awaits them as they cry out Lord,Lord....

All scripture must be understood with the lens/paradigm of the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.... scripture apart from this truth is completely misunderstood.

 

[UnderGrace]

Two classes of persons here.

1)Those who hear and do the Lord's will - saved.
2)Those who hear and do not the Lord's will - not saved.

I can fix this for you so you have the right lens

1)Those who hear and do the Lord's will trusting in Him for salvation apart from works - saved.

2)Those who hear and do not do the Lord's will by not trusting in Him for salvation by trusting in their own works - not saved

 

[dcontroversal]

That happened to me once. I had a guy swing around be and blocked my car at a stop sign, as I was going was on the road to the gun range. I have know idea what he thought I did wrong. He got out his car and was cussing and swearing, and even smashed his fists against the car door window a couple times, while I loaded my 9 mm pistol out of his eyesight. I knew I would have to shoot if he broke my window, and thankfully a lady was in her car next to me, and she stayed there as witness. I noticed both arms were covered with tattoos, and figured he was an ex-inmate, and his severe anger problem landed him in prison once already. But thankfully after he vented for a few minutes, he flipped me off and left.

AMEN.......I do not like to engage like that, but make no mistake.....I fully plan on going home on any given day and will not be run off the road by some fool on a tangent when he himself was the one who was driving like a fool.........!

 

[dcontroversal]

Works are the after effect of God's calling and saving a soul by grace through faith and not by works.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Do you have a faith that truly loves your neighbor as yourself?

James 2:14-17
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

See verse 23?
Abraham believed God, he had grace through faith first.

That is what caused Abraham's works in verse 21.

How about Rahab in verse 25?

Hebrews 11:31
By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

James is not talking about praying for dead people. <---Dead works faith!
James is not talking about performing vain rituals in some religious place. <--- Dead works faith!
James is not talking about giving your used clothing and belongings to your church. <---Dead works faith!
James is not talking about showing favoritism to a particular denomination and adhering to and promoting it's bylaws. <---Dead works faith!
James is not talking about putting on a outward appearance of faith.<-- Dead works faith!

The works James is talking about are the works that come after grace through faith has already begun; that grace through faith that comes from God in Christ Jesus before time began.

Even atheists and the most evil men can deceive others by performing so called good deeds and putting on a show of faith outwardly.

Again.......

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Do you have a faith that truly loves your neighbor as yourself?

Grace through faith saves and not by works!

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

AMEN............James in context is not teaching a faith/works blend for salvation..........and for sure two statements are never brought up by those that peddle such a thing......those being...

a. SHOW ME your faith
b. EVEN the demons Believe (in God)

the same issue the JEWS have to this very day....a belief in GOD but NO saving faith........................

 

[dcontroversal]

No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD.

These people on this thread mock God.

Do they teach obedience to God? No. It will destroy their man made doctrines.

Do they teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD?
They attack, insult and blaspheme those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD and is a clear evidence of what they teach.

NIV1984 Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Seoche, Argueless all used the same drivel and blather......I see you made your way back yet again......get your fact straight.....Proverbs 6...7 things God hates....a lying tongue and the above false accusations = exactly that.....a lying tongue.....NO ONE on this thread argues against obedience or maybe you are too dense to understand that!!

 

[dcontroversal]

How can anyone with even a modicum of understanding believe that the persons who were rejected by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 were rejected because they had practiced faith plus works.Read what the passage says:

Matthew 7:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


The one who is saved does the will of the father in contrast to the one who does iniquity and who will not be saved.What is iniquity?

Iniquity - anomia

Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Strongs Definition
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:

According to Vine's; lit.lawlessness(a,negative,nomos, law) is used in a way which indicates the meaning as being lawlessness or wickedness.

Hence the persons who were not saved were actually working miracles,casting out devils and prophesying while still committing acts of lawlessness and wickedness.They were lying, stealing, adulterous pastors,ministers,elders, etc.

The fact that they were not obeying the word of God is confirmed by the statements of Jesus further in the passage:

Matthew 7:
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


Two classes of persons here.

1)Those who hear and do the Lord's will - saved.
2)Those who hear and do not the Lord's will - not saved.

Hence even though empowered by God to do great things,being outside of the will of God will cause many who thought they were saved to be rejected.Many in this position are deceived by the fact that they still experience miracles and the power of God is manifesting in their lives or the lives of their ministers/pastors.Therefore they fail to recognize their departure from,or failure to be in,the will of God or they may feel their actions/works of righteousness or works of unrighteousness has no bearing on their salvation since the power of God is working in their lives..A rude awakening awaits them as they cry out Lord,Lord....

Listen Saranwrap.....go read Galatians after you trust JESUS by saving faith.....then you will understand that FAITH plus WORKS is a false gospel with no power to save........and the MANY, as well as yourself, PEDDLE the self same false gospel......

 

[dcontroversal]

Wonder why Peter did not say BELIEVE and WORK in the following verse....

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

 

[dcontroversal]

Notice saved by GRACE that was given before the creation of the world......NOTE.....NO WORKS implied to gain salvation

He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

 

[dcontroversal]

Salvation comes from GOD not MAN and or what man does.....


Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wonder why Paul did not use the words works in place of the word believe and faith

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

The gate is FAITH.......unlike the many that try FAITH plus works....<---they get cast

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[dcontroversal]

NOTICE.....not to everyone that believes and works for it or to top it off.....

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

 

[dcontroversal]

Prime example of faith healing a blind man....note....his works did not do it....

“Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

 

[dcontroversal]

Salvation is free gift based upon faith and grace....those that interject works and then try to use that card to enter are cast....faith alone is what saves a man eternally...adding works voids the gospel....I mean...how obstinate or dense does one have to be to reject the following while adding works!!

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[dcontroversal]

Again we do not see....everyone that calls on the name of the Lord while working to gain it or keep it....NO religious hoops to jump for eternal salvation

For, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”