Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,821
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Simplicity that is found in Christ

My wife was witnessing to an elderly rich lady on her death bed, one day, and she asked, "What must I do to be SAVED." My wife said, "Just believe in JESUS CHRIST, receiving HIM as LORD of YOUR LIFE, and You will be SAVED." The elderly lady said, "I will never believe that, BECAUSE IT IS TOO SIMPLE." A few hours later she passed away. No indication that She had ever received Jesus Christ. How sad!
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Hi cgneustar

U sin everyday – do u lose your salvation each time? And then confess it to regain it before going to bed?

Salvation is not a strobe light; lose/find/lose/find/lose/find... Once obtained it is never lost. That is the essence of this tread.

Good works come after salvation but are not required for salvation.

Welcome to CC !
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Deliverance can be lost, both now, and even when a man inherits the kingdom of God. Why else do you think Satan lost his position in heaven if not by sin, even though he was made perfect? Obedience to God will always be required, and if you disobey, you will but cut off. Satan is not only an example of this, but even the sons of Israel who disobeyed after they were delivered from the Egyptians. Anyone who thinks he can be delivered while living a lawless life is in complete error and understands nothing.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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So what are u going to do given u sin every single day...?
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Lawless people sin every day, not righteous men. Noah was "perfect" in his generation, and that is why he was spared from the destruction of the flood. And even Abraham was told, "walk before me and be perfect, that I may establish my covenant with you". Perfection is a requirement to enter the kingdom of God, both then, under the old covenant, and even more so now, under the new covenant for unlike the blood of animals that was never able to remove sin, the blood of the Messiah now removes sin, by rebirth in set-apart airflow, which cuts away the foreskin of the heart, which is sin, through belief in him, hence "he who is born of God cannot sin", and thus, it becomes impossible to sin again, which is why the Messiah taught, "be perfect". You err in your understanding of scripture.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,821
2,703
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Belief without works is dead, hence the reason works are required. Why else do you think the Messiah said, "every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down"? Good fruit is good works. Even the Torah itself commands, "if one of your brothers becomes poor, you shall give him sufficient for his need". Doing good works is not optional, it is commanded. This is precisely where the Pharisees fell short, because they put too much importance on lesser matters of the Torah, like tzitzit and tefillin, and neglected the weightier matters of the Torah, such as acts of mercy and love towards others. And today, the same thing happens with many so called "believers", who reject the obligation to do good works, by saying, "you only need belief, not works".

I have News for YOU, FRUIT is what you produce AFTER you have been BORN AGAIN. Just like our natural birth, YOU HAVE TO BE BORN FIRST, before YOUR Tree can ever PRODUCE FRUIT (WALK). And for your information, Obedience is NOT PART OF SALVATION, IT IS PART OF THE LOVE THAT GOD had the Holy Spirit Pour into our Human Spirit (HEART), Rom 5:5. So where is your LOVE?

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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I have News for YOU, FRUIT is what is what you produce AFTER you have been BORN AGAIN. Just like our natural birth, YOU HAVE TO BE BORN FIRST, before YOUR Tree can ever PRODUCE FRUIT (WALK). And for your information, it Obedience is NOT PART OF SALVATION, IT IS PART OF THE LOVE THAT GOD had the Holy Spirit Pour into our Human Spirit (HEART), Rom 5:5. So where is your LOVE?
Cornelius had not yet received the anointing, and he was commended for doing good works to the poor by the angel that appeared to him, which subsequently lead to him receiving the anointing that he knew nothing of. Good works are a requirement, hence why the Messiah taught, "sell your possession and give to the poor".
 

longtrekker

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
392
185
43
Deliverance can be lost, both now, and even when a man inherits the kingdom of God. Why else do you think Satan lost his position in heaven if not by sin, even though he was made perfect? Obedience to God will always be required, and if you disobey, you will but cut off. Satan is not only an example of this, but even the sons of Israel who disobeyed after they were delivered from the Egyptians. Anyone who thinks he can be delivered while living a lawless life is in complete error and understands nothing.
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A single small sin or many big sins are enough to consign us to hell so don’t worry so much about Satan’s sins.

But we and all our sins are covered by the blood of the lamb. We are as white as snow to Him. John 6:39 He will not lose a single one.

Again u sin every single day - so big or small one sin is enough to condemn.
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theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
Everyone agree that sanctification begins at salvation, right?

I believe that sanctification begins at salvation,

No one disagree, right?
 
Jun 4, 2019
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A single small sin or many big sins are enough to consign us to hell so don’t worry so much about Satan’s sins.

But we and all our sins are covered by the blood of the lamb. We are as white as snow to Him. John 6:39 He will not lose a single one.

Again u sin every single day - so big or small one sin is enough to condemn.
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The Messiah did not die to excuse lawlessness, he died to perfect his people by his blood, which the blood of animals waver able to do.
 

longtrekker

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
392
185
43
The Messiah did not die to excuse lawlessness, he died to perfect his people by his blood, which the blood of animals waver able to do.
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No one here excuses lawlessness – strawman. But u can never get around that fact; one sin and your doomed and u sin every single day.
.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
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How much sin are we Guilty of ? ? ? As much as the WORST MASS MURDERER ON DEATH ROW, is how much every one us has.

Let me show you HOW MUCH all of us are GUILTY OF:

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.
Let's see how cgn refute this part

I pretty much consider VCO as one of my role model
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,821
2,703
113
Cornelius had not yet received the anointing, and he was commended for doing good works to the poor by the angel that appeared to him, which subsequently lead to him receiving the anointing that he knew nothing of. Good works are a requirement, hence why the Messiah taught, "sell your possession and give to the poor".
Look at the verse I added after you first read this.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Please LEARN the TRUTH, you are trying to ROB CHRIST of the GLORY only HE DESERVES.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
My wife was witnessing to an elderly rich lady on her death bed, one day, and she asked, "What must I do to be SAVED." My wife said, "Just believe in JESUS CHRIST, receiving HIM as LORD of YOUR LIFE, and You will be SAVED." The elderly lady said, "I will never believe that, BECAUSE IT IS TOO SIMPLE." A few hours later she passed away. No indication that She had ever received Jesus Christ. How sad!
The final remainder of her life, ask Jesus as Lord, in few moments, she will be ...

Darn, for that rich lady

She should have asked
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,194
113
My wife was witnessing to an elderly rich lady on her death bed, one day, and she asked, "What must I do to be SAVED." My wife said, "Just believe in JESUS CHRIST, receiving HIM as LORD of YOUR LIFE, and You will be SAVED." The elderly lady said, "I will never believe that, BECAUSE IT IS TOO SIMPLE." A few hours later she passed away. No indication that She had ever received Jesus Christ. How sad!
There is a truth and a lie within the view the lady was speaking.
The truth is accepting Jesus as our saviour is too simple, like getting a ticket to get on a train.

But to admit we are worthy of judgement, to be destroyed and punished as our just reward,
and to know we resist anything good and righteous unless it benefits us, that is hard. It strikes
at the heart of our walk in life and all we achieve, which often we take pride in and would be
deeply hurt if we lost.

Then to accept Jesus, a preacher, a man of love and ethics is God the Lord of All, the judge,
the creator, the source, the beginning and End, the one who can take us home to this place
of the ideal, the perfect, the resolved and the contained, through the cross died for us so
that we might be forgiven, at which point we must give up the ways of the world and start
to walk in His ways.

That is hard, the hardest thing anyone can do.
I wonder when we present the gospel if we present it so it appears easy without depth,
we are probably not presenting the true emotional story of the gospel but ideas and statements.

I have met preachers who knew the words, but not the heart, and did not know conviction and failure,
just conformity and saying the right phrases. It is hard to distinguish between the two, if everything
is taught as a belief and not a heart reality.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
869
113
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Hi cgneustar

U sin everyday – do u lose your salvation each time? And then confess it to regain it before going to bed?

Salvation is not a strobe light; lose/find/lose/find/lose/find... Once granted it is never lost. That is the essence of this tread.

Good works come after salvation but are not required for salvation.

Welcome to CC !
.
I agree that

a. we are regenerated, justified, adopted, sealed, sanctified, kept, and preserved by grace through faith, not good works

b. Good works come after salvation, are subsequent to salvation,

c. we are not saved by works, and we are not without sin...

...BUT if someone sees someone half dead lying on the road and ignores them, how can it be said that the love of God dwells in such a person?

This is why I agree with the old adage that we are saved by faith alone, but faith is not alone.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
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No one here excuses lawlessness – strawman. But u can never get around that fact; one sin and your doomed and u sin every single day.
.
You can stop sinning, you just don't want to, which is why you make yourself believe that you cannot, even though it is clear from scripture that there were men whose walk was perfect before God.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Look at the verse I added after you first read this.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Please LEARN the TRUTH, you are trying to ROB CHRIST of the GLORY only HE DESERVES.
We are saved by favor because of predestination, because God chose who he will deliver before the foundations of the world before anyone did any works, not because works are not incumbent on those he chose to deliver, for anyone he chose will yield good works. If you do not yield good works, then you were never chosen.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,972
2,780
113
You can stop sinning, you just don't want to, which is why you make yourself believe that you cannot, even though it is clear from scripture that there were men whose walk was perfect before God.
well, we have a self-deceived sinless perfectionist. have not ha one in a while, guess we were do.