Not By Works

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VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#100,902
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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#100,902
UnderGrace said:
No we strive to grow in Grace
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That we do too.

However, WE STRIVE TO FOR OBEDIENCE, purely because we LOVE HIM.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


HIS commands are NEVER a Burden, when we do them out of LOVE for HIM.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#100,903
#100,903
VCO said:
That we do too.

However, WE STRIVE TO FOR OBEDIENCE, purely because we LOVE HIM.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


HIS commands are NEVER a Burden, when we do them out of LOVE for HIM.
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I do not strive for......., put that all behind me ....now I rest in Him

I yield and agree with Him that I am a new creation and that He loves me :)

When I agree and am persuaded that what He states is true, I feel His pleasure and then I am in a place to share what I have with others apart from compunction fully from a place of liberty in Him.

I am no more or less a sinner today than the day I first met Him, I was a sinner then and still am, however, I was made whole the day I met Him, redeemed and sanctified in Him.

The battle is walking in the Spirit (under grace) not walking in the flesh (self-effort)....so I gave up trying to finish in the flesh what is done in the spirit, I have learned to be in Him and He in me.
 
theanointedwinner

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
#100,904
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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#100,904
If we read something in the Bible that we don't understand or doesn't make sense, do we just pretend that it make sense and misapply it

How's our Bible reading?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#100,907
Jan 18, 2011
12,327
6,696
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#100,907
notice, when you point out the actual definition of sin to a sinless perfectionist deceiver, they suddenly, after yelling about not sinning, they get quiet........
 
theanointedwinner

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
#100,909
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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#100,909
Why did Adam and Eve have sinful desires even if sin did not enter into the world yet, back then
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#100,910
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#100,910
UnderGrace said:
I do not strive for......., put that all behind me ....now I rest in Him

I yield and agree with Him that I am a new creation and that He loves me :)

When I agree and am persuaded that what He states is true, I feel His pleasure and then I am in a place to share what I have with others apart from compunction fully from a place of liberty in Him.

I am no more or less a sinner today than the day I first met Him, I was a sinner then and still am, however, I was made whole the day I met Him, redeemed and sanctified in Him.

The battle is walking in the Spirit (under grace) not walking in the flesh (self-effort)....so I gave up trying to finish in the flesh what is done in the spirit, I have learned to be in Him and He in me.
Click to expand...


Do you have someone You LOVE deeply? Then you should understand that when you see something you can help with, YOU DO IT LOVINGLY AND IT IS NOT A BURDEN. It is not Something that YOU HAVE TO DO, but rather it is SOMETHING YOU WILL LOVE TO DO.

Judaizers, Works Righteousness advocates, are those who THINK THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT PLEASES HIM.

We WANT to do what Pleases HIM, because it is our way to LOVE HIM BACK. It is not a CHORE, to please HIM; it is a JOY TO PLEASE HIM.

If you do not see your Human Spirit Maturing in CHRIST, which is Sins LESS, and LESS, and LESS, are you even Maturing.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (GWT)
18 As all of us reflect the Lord's glory with faces that are not covered with veils, we are being changed into his image with ever-increasing glory. This comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Something is SERIOUSLY WRONG, if you are not seeing any improvement. Are you even Born Again ? ? ?

The Definition of "Enter His Rest", does not mean we do NOTHING. It means we do not need to do good works to earn our SALVATION.

It Means we do good works because we LOVE THEM.

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#100,911
#100,911
VCO said:
Do you have someone You LOVE deeply? Then you should understand that when you see something you can help with, YOU DO IT LOVINGLY AND IT IS NOT A BURDEN. It is not Something that YOU HAVE TO DO, but rather it is SOMETHING YOU WILL LOVE TO DO.

Judaizers, Works Righteousness advocates, are those who THINK THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT PLEASES HIM.

We WANT to do what Pleases HIM, because it is our way to LOVE HIM BACK. It is not a CHORE, to please HIM; it is a JOY TO PLEASE HIM.

If you do not see your Human Spirit Maturing in CHRIST, which is Sins LESS, and LESS, and LESS, are you even Maturing.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (GWT)
18 As all of us reflect the Lord's glory with faces that are not covered with veils, we are being changed into his image with ever-increasing glory. This comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Something is SERIOUSLY WRONG, if you are not seeing any improvement. Are you even Born Again ? ? ?

The Definition of "Enter His Rest", does not mean we do NOTHING. It means we do not need to do good works to earn our SALVATION.

It Means we do good works because we LOVE THEM.

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
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I avoid John MacArthur at all costs and his teachings of "sinning less and less" or you are not saved fiasco teaching.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#100,912
Dec 27, 2018
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#100,912
cgneustar said:
You may continue believing whatever little fantasies you want to believe in, that you are not obligated to do good works, but in the end I will be proven right but what I told you, because it is the truth. And I have satisfaction in that truth, because any man that says he is not obligated to help his brother in need deserves to be thrown into aeonial fire,

Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.
Proverbs 21:13
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We are not saved in any way by doing good works. That would make good works prescriptive for salvation, ie- working towards salvation. Salvation is a free gift, received by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9)...but wait, it doesn't end there, we must move forward to Ephesians 2:10... we are saved UNTO good works. The word "unto" denotes the purpose of our salvation. Also stated in Titus 2:14 14 Who gave himself for us, that (PURPOSE) he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Who gave Himself for us THAT (indicates purpose) He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

You are taking texts that describe people who are already converted and turning them into prescriptions that one needs to do in order to be converted. But this does not work, because the CREATION precedes the action.

We are first created in Christ Jesus (regenerated) then secondly the good works follow.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

Member
#100,913
Jun 4, 2019
183
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18
#100,913
Macabeus said:
We are not saved in any way by doing good works. That would make good works prescriptive for salvation, ie- working towards salvation. Salvation is a free gift, received by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9)...but wait, it doesn't end there, we must move forward to Ephesians 2:10... we are saved UNTO good works. The word "unto" denotes the purpose of our salvation. Also stated in Titus 2:14 14 Who gave himself for us, that (PURPOSE) he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Who gave Himself for us THAT (indicates purpose) He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

You are taking texts that describe people who are already converted and turning them into prescriptions that one needs to do in order to be converted. But this does not work, because the CREATION precedes the action.

We are first created in Christ Jesus (regenerated) then secondly the good works follow.
Click to expand...
Every tree that does not bear fruit will be cut down. This statement reveals that good fruit is required, not optional. As such, we are not delivered for the good works we did, although they are required, but because God predestined who will be delivered from before the foundations of the world, before anyone did any works.

http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/03/05/the-predestination-of-god/
http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/24/give-to-the-poor-and-do-good-works/
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#100,914
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#100,914
cgneustar said:
Every tree that does not bear fruit will be cut down. This statement reveals that good fruit is required, not optional. As such, we are not delivered for the good works we did, although they are required, but because God predestined who will be delivered from before the foundations of the world, before anyone did any works.

http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/03/05/the-predestination-of-god/
http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/24/give-to-the-poor-and-do-good-works/
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The bearing of fruit is not prescriptive, but rather descriptive. In other words, the fruit we bear is not the cause of our abiding in Christ, but rather, abiding in Christ is the cause of our good fruit. The fruit does not bear the vine, rather the vine bears the fruit.

We are first created in Christ Jesus unto good works, and then good works follow. Good works do not produce the New Creation, the New Creation produces the good works.

We do not read an imperative commanding us to bear good fruit in order to abide in Jesus. But rather, imperatives commanding us to abide in Jesus that we may bear fruit. Whoever abides in Him and Christ abiding in Him bears much fruit. (John 15:5)
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

Member
#100,915
Jun 4, 2019
183
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#100,915
Macabeus said:
The bearing of fruit is not prescriptive, but rather descriptive. In other words, the fruit we bear is not the cause of our abiding in Christ, but rather, abiding in Christ is the cause of our good fruit. The fruit does not bear the vine, rather the vine bears the fruit.

We are first created in Christ Jesus unto good works, and then good works follow. Good works do not produce the New Creation, the New Creation produces the good works.
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The bearing of good fruit is both prescriptive and descriptive, because if you do not bear good fruit, then you are not in the Messiah, but if you are indeed truly in the Messiah, then you will be good fruit. Regardless in what perspective you view this in, good fruit is required.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#100,916
Dec 27, 2018
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#100,916
cgneustar said:
The bearing of good fruit is both prescriptive and descriptive, because if you do not bear good fruit, then you are not in the Messiah, but if you are indeed truly in the Messiah, then you will be good fruit. Regardless in what perspective you view this in, good fruit is required.
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But it is God who baptizes us into the Messiah. Our good works do not baptize us into Messiah. God baptizes us into Messiah in the New Birth, which is a powerful work of God, not of man.

I believe in good works. But they are the result of our salvation, not the cause.

And I agree that if someone is saved, that salvation will be manifested. But salvation is first, birth before walking.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

Member
#100,917
Jun 4, 2019
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#100,917
Macabeus said:
But it is God who baptizes us into the Messiah. Our good works do not baptize us into Messiah. God baptizes us into Messiah in the New Birth, which is a powerful work of God, not of man.
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You cannot be baptized in the Messiah unless you do good works. Why else do you think Cornelius received the baptism of the Messiah. which is the anointing, if not by his belief and obedience and good works? He was commended by his good works by the angel that spoke to him, "Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your gifts to the poor have been remembered before God". This is why the Messiah instructed the following, "sell your possessions and give to the poor", and that is why Zachaeus received deliverance, because he obeyed this instruction of the Messiah, "Behold, Master, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold. And Yeshuah said to him, 'Today deliverance has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham.'" You reject a very simple premise of the gospel of the Messiah, that we MUST give to the poor and do good works. It is obligatory, not optional.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#100,919
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#100,919
cgneustar said:
You cannot be baptized in the Messiah unless you do good works. Why else do you think Cornelius received the baptism of the Messiah. which is the anointing, if not by his belief and obedience and good works? He was commended by his good works by the angel that spoke to him, "Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your gifts to the poor have been remembered before God". This is why the Messiah instructed the following, "sell your possessions and give to the poor", and that is why Zachaeus received deliverance, because he obeyed this instruction of the Messiah, "Behold, Master, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold. And Yeshuah said to him, 'Today deliverance has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham.'" You reject a very simple premise of the gospel of the Messiah, that we MUST give to the poor and do good works. It is obligatory, not optional.
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I do not reject giving to the poor or good works. I reject them as meritorious towards our salvation. I fully believe in EVERY good work. But do not believe that they save us. What good work did Paul command of the Phillipian jailer in Acts 16?
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

Member
#100,920
Jun 4, 2019
183
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#100,920
Macabeus said:
I do not reject giving to the poor or good works. I reject them as meritorious towards our salvation. I fully believe in EVERY good work. But do not believe that they save us. What good work did Paul command of the Phillipian jailer in Acts 16?
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If evil works lead to death, why would you not think good works lead to life? The reason that good works do not deliver us is not because they are not required to inherit the kingdom of God, but because all we truly deserve is death, according to the Torah of God, because we have all sinned, so the fact that we can continue to live and have an opportunity to do the good works required to inherit the kingdom of God is none other because of the mercy and favor of God. As such, in summary, good works are required.
 
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