Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A red herring would detract from what you are saying. But nothing I said contradicts what you said. You want to know about the CONTEXT of the text you are quoting is about. ABRAHAM. Abraham was justified by FAITH ALONE. Now why don't you read THE REST of the chapter and see what sort of faith Abraham had.
Romans 4:8 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Romans 4:8 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Where did I imply that someone said that? Post number please. DO you want a hat for your strawman or a match to light him up. Show me a post where I accused anyone of saying children of God are not given new desires or made new. I will continue posting this repeatedly until you either admit you accused me of something I did not do or provide documentation for your accusation.
I neither know or care who is ignoring me.
Show me a post where I accused anyone of saying children of God are not given new desires or made new. I will continue posting this repeatedly until you either admit you accused me of something I did not do or provide documentation for your accusation.
ONE SPECIFIC POST, give post number
DControversal, Eternally Grateful, and GB9 are on my ignore list. SO if they give an answer to this, pass it on to me.
Show me a post where I accused anyone of saying children of God are not given new desires or made new. I will continue posting this repeatedly until you either admit you accused me of something I did not do or provide documentation for your accusation.
ONE SPECIFIC POST, give post number
DControversal, Eternally Grateful, and GB9 are on my ignore list. SO if they give an answer to this, pass it on to me.
How about DC asking a rhetorical question can a person can be saved 50 years without doing any work for God's glory to prove his point about justification by faith without works. . What desires do you have where you are saved 50 years, but live entirely to yourself. That sounds like living in the flesh. .
OK so now I am saying it. To say that someone can be saved 50 years and do no service for God is the same as not having new desires. Unless you decide to suppress the desires of your new nature for 50 years, I suppose one could do that.
OK so now I am saying it. To say that someone can be saved 50 years and do no service for God is the same as not having new desires. Unless you decide to suppress the desires of your new nature for 50 years, I suppose one could do that.
We are justified by faith without works, yes, but when we are justified, we also receive a new nature, and if we have a new nature, we will have new desires, and thus, we will want to see God glorified (new desires) and will labor to that end. Not to be saved, but from love and gratitude. This does not describe DC's hypothetical man, a person who has been saved 50 years, but has never lifted a finger to glorify God and help neighbor. If a person has new desires, why would he suppress those desires for 50 years?
Therefore, you and DC are correct that a person is justified by faith through Grace alone, but DC uses the text to teach that a person can be saved their whole life basically without doing anything out of love or gratitude for God (saved 50 years and no works) , and claim they have faith or a new nature.
The verse is GREAT. Using the verse to produce such an argument IS NOT.
So are YOU going to defend such argumentation?
The verse is GREAT. Using the verse to produce such an argument IS NOT.
So are YOU going to defend such argumentation?
Good day, sir.
E
Its the romans 7 issue maybe? Things you do not want to do you do?
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
The flesh has no choice but to serve self. Even if you yourself do not wish to. That is one of the consequences of the fall.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
The flesh has no choice but to serve self. Even if you yourself do not wish to. That is one of the consequences of the fall.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
How much do you suppose is required?🙄
Lol.
God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.
I'll give you a story of a different man, you keep posting over and over again swinging at air.
This is from me, not brother dave.
There is a man who loves to drink
he loves to swear and be violent
he is bitter and holds grudges to the point of wanting harm on others
he is a fornicator
he loves,it and doesn't regret a moment of it
he loves to fight and eat junk food and smoke
he lies and manipulates and is very lazy every chance he gets....
this man hears God call
he tries to ignore it... but he ends up hearing the gospel
and it sinks in.... there is a core belief
now paired with the understanding he is in trouble
he is still lacking wisdom so he dives deeper into the word
at first he has many misconceptions
but God uses His children and His word to answer this mans prayers and shine light on the truth
this man now understands the saving gospel
he understands Jesus died for his sins
he understands the cost of sin
he understands that God is offering a free give of grace and ETERNAL life
God does not need one... not even one drop of outward evidence to see if this faith is genuine....
if this man is born again
he is saved
works do not prove he is saved
and lack of works before the eyes of man do not prove he isnt
now this man does not fornicate
but still struggles with lust sometimes in his thoughts <- before God his works dont justify him
before man he improved
but before God he will always need Jesus's righteousness which is by faith
this man no longer swears or is violent or even holds grudges ... but still has a temper and gets angry <- still misses the mark before God
this man still drinks too much from time to time
but instead of being joyful... it breaks his heart and he cries to God
where are this mans works....
to you it is impossible he is saved?
at what point can he be saved... how many works do you feel are required to justify a man before another man....
no one has argued against God working new desires in us and chastening us and making us turn from sin
you come to a thread which gives GOD GLORY AND PRAISE for salvation
His wonderful gift
then you bicker and ramble trying to point to works of man
why?
start an encouragement for walking with a clean heart thread unless you disagree we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ
-
1
-
1
- Show all
My response that you originally took issue with was a perfectly valid response to DC's use of Romans 4 to present an argument for a person being saved their whole life without ever showing any love for God or neighbor, which is what being saved 50 years would basically mean. Not a bad verse. It was a good verse to support a bad argument.
Sorry you can't deal with that.
Do you want to debate me, just me and you, one on one, on whether a person who has been born from above can even hypothetically live 50 years and never once do anything for God or man? I'll gladly take that debate in a heartbeat.
Sorry you can't deal with that.
Do you want to debate me, just me and you, one on one, on whether a person who has been born from above can even hypothetically live 50 years and never once do anything for God or man? I'll gladly take that debate in a heartbeat.
-
1
- Show all
I haven't asked to speak with or debate you, you quoted me then starting fighting against the words of others calling me an accuser and rambling, while never addressing the context of MY posts.
If you keep talking about some words someone else said and wanting me to argue for them, you will end up wasting your time.
vvvvv