Not By Works

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Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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W
Right, a saint cannot apostatize because of Jesus within them (the new nature) not because of their behavior (old nature).
WE are saved by Grace through faith, we are kept by Grace through faith.

WE are talking about continuance in the faith because kept of God.

But we do want to put off the old man and put on the new, so that we may glorify God. :) Why walk around in dirty clothes, when Father has given us nice, clean, white garments to wear?
 

Macabeus

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Dec 27, 2018
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Sometimes Mr. M it becomes style over substance especially, when people do not know you and you come in with all engines ablaze!!
In this case, shoot the messenger for being maybe a bull in a china cabinet, but not the message. But if you call the messenger a liar and a fraud when he is saying what you have already agreed to, because you don't like the messenger. (not you, others) isn't that shooting the message too
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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What do we all agree on?
For the most part, we agree. I truly believe that. All the arguing is due to misunderstanding one another.

Sure, we may interpret texts slightly differently, but from what I see, we mostly agree on doctrine. We just like to look for faults instead of common ground sometimes. At least UnderGrace is willing to look for common ground in our disagreement, and that is a breath of fresh air.

My position simply stated is this. WE are saved by Grace through faith, and sanctified, preserved, etc (ALL IS OF AND FROM GOD) the same way. But Father wants us to put on our new clothes, not continue walking around in our old ones, so that we may bring glory to Him as His Children, which we ALREADY ARE (1 John 3:1-2).

Simple enough
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I can agree with this better than the other approach you had before....Amen!!

The ONLY DIFFERENCE is THOSE who only Know About Jesus, but still have not yet been Born Again, Broad Road Christians, still UNSAVED.

AND THOSE who KNOW JESUS Intimately and Personally, having been BORN AGAIN, and they are ON THE NARROW ROAD to Heaven.

Joshua 24:15 (NJB)
15 But if serving Yahweh seems a bad thing to you, today you must make up your minds whom you do mean to serve, whether the gods whom your ancestors served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose country you are now living. As regards my family and me, we shall serve Yahweh.'
 
R

Rasputin_OZ

Guest
H. One his book called the CHARISMATICS, in that book He proves that the Modern Day TONGUES, is Nothing like what the Apostles did on the Day of Pentecost, and is obviously a Counterfeit.
so all Tongues is Fake ? and no one is to do it anymore? if that is his belief it is not scriptural that tongues was only for a season, back for the apostles times, but many believe also Apostles are not for today, and yet Eph 4:11 clearly says the full mistry Apostles, prophet evnagelists, pastors and teachers are for perfecting the saints, not met too many perfect ones so we still need them
Another issue HE was Severe Criticized that I stated on an interview, that he believes that people can repent of the sin of accepting the Mark of the Beast. His defense of that statement; IS CHRIST SAID THERE IS ONLY ONE UNFORGIVABLE SIN, and to make that an unforgivable SIN, would make TWO Unforgivable SINS.
well as we never been told what Blaspheme the holy spirit is I can only presume that if the bible says anything about separating those that got the mark from those that did, there is a reason for that and perhaps our understanign of the two things , Blaspheme Spirit and Mark of Beast maybe is not correct. perhaps they the same thing, basically to accept the mark is an indication of totlly rejecting the spirit and thereby is unforgivable , same sin. just suggesting . ill read what revaltions says, but too many people take one scripture and discount all others.
 

theanointedwinner

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Nov 6, 2018
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New International Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

King James Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

New King James Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

New American Standard Bible
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

The Living Bible
John 3:16, "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

New Living Translation
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
John 3:16, "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

English Standard Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Revised Standard Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

New Revised Standard Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but have eternal life."

New International Readers Version
John 3:16, "God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son. Anyone who believes in Him will not die but have eternal life."

The Message
John 3:16, "This is how much God loved the world: He gave His Son, His one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in Him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life."

New Century Version a.k.a. International Children’s Bible
John 3:16, "God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son so that whoever believes in Him may not be lost, but have eternal life."

God’s Word Translation
John 3:16, "God loved the world this way: He gave His only Son so that everyone who believes in Him will not die but will have eternal life."

Contemporary English Version
John 3:16, "God loved the people of this world so much that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who has faith in Him will have eternal life and never really die."

New English Bible and Revised English Bible
John 3:16, "God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, that everyone who has faith in Him may not die but have eternal life."

Good News Bible a.k.a. Today’s English Version
John 3:16, "For God loved the world so much, that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die but have eternal life."

New Jerusalem Bible
John 3:16, "Yes, God loved the world so much, that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him, may not die but have eternal life."

Amplified Bible
John 3:16, "For God so greatly loved (dearly prized) the world that He (even) gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life."

New American Bible
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him might not perish but might have eternal life."

New English Translation
John 3:16, "For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Literal Translation of the Bible
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Modern English Version
John 3:16, "For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,096
113
New International Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

King James Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

New King James Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

New American Standard Bible
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

The Living Bible
John 3:16, "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

New Living Translation
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
John 3:16, "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

English Standard Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Revised Standard Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

New Revised Standard Version
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but have eternal life."

New International Readers Version
John 3:16, "God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son. Anyone who believes in Him will not die but have eternal life."

The Message
John 3:16, "This is how much God loved the world: He gave His Son, His one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in Him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life."

New Century Version a.k.a. International Children’s Bible
John 3:16, "God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son so that whoever believes in Him may not be lost, but have eternal life."

God’s Word Translation
John 3:16, "God loved the world this way: He gave His only Son so that everyone who believes in Him will not die but will have eternal life."

Contemporary English Version
John 3:16, "God loved the people of this world so much that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who has faith in Him will have eternal life and never really die."

New English Bible and Revised English Bible
John 3:16, "God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, that everyone who has faith in Him may not die but have eternal life."

Good News Bible a.k.a. Today’s English Version
John 3:16, "For God loved the world so much, that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him, may not die but have eternal life."

New Jerusalem Bible
John 3:16, "Yes, God loved the world so much, that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him, may not die but have eternal life."

Amplified Bible
John 3:16, "For God so greatly loved (dearly prized) the world that He (even) gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life."

New American Bible
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him might not perish but might have eternal life."

New English Translation
John 3:16, "For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Literal Translation of the Bible
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Modern English Version
John 3:16, "For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

all it requires of salvation is "believe"

keyword: believe
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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all it requires of salvation is "believe"

keyword: believe
In all the debates people have had on the word "believe" it always makes me wonder.
If we stood in front of a door with a large fence on both sides and all we could see was this door
and on the door it said believe, this is like this statement Jesus is saying. Believe I am the in the Father
and the Father is in me. If you love me you will obey my commandments.
If you know me you will obey and build your house upon this rock. If you have faith you will see the
lost in need of saving, and reach out to find them, and help them to see the truth of their state.

When we open the door believe we see heaven, we see the path of heaven, we see the lostness of sin
and self indulgence, its destruction of the soul and heart, and how without love we are forever lost.

Some feel that trying to live to love is a work, rather than the outworking of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.
Until you can see what love is, it is almost like we are paralysed in faith.

I have seen people walking with dead hearts trying to love others while not understanding what love is
or that they are loved themselves. Others feel this is a standard they must meet rather than a realisation
they need to obtain. A blind person cannot walk as if they can see because simply they will stumble and
fall and never recover.

This forum is a classic example of the difficulty of knowing what love is.
We have nothing to prove to God, He knows us, yet to say we need to walk in love for some in legalism,
others claim they are lost is self indulgence and selfish desire without possible hope, and yet Jesus clearly
states His people will see love conquer all.

Only at the end when we arrive will all become clear, which I why I just Praise God, He leads us on.

9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful
desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have
wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of the faith.
1 Tim 6
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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Saved by grace
Out with the old, in with the new

Got it
Yep, this has been my point the whole time.

1 John 2:8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

This is the sum and total of everything I have said. The darkness (old way of life) is passing away and the true light (new life in Christ, who is the Light) is already shining.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
The ONLY DIFFERENCE is THOSE who only Know About Jesus, but still have not yet been Born Again, Broad Road Christians, still UNSAVED.

AND THOSE who KNOW JESUS Intimately and Personally, having been BORN AGAIN, and they are ON THE NARROW ROAD to Heaven.

Joshua 24:15 (NJB)
15 But if serving Yahweh seems a bad thing to you, today you must make up your minds whom you do mean to serve, whether the gods whom your ancestors served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose country you are now living. As regards my family and me, we shall serve Yahweh.'
This is what I see 1 John 3:5-10 and other verses is talking about. Verse 8 and verse 10 confirm it. (see passages in red below). They cannot possibly make it more clear that this passage is not talking about two natures in one person (though that is found in other places), it is talking about two different sorts of people.

They do not say that a Christian is sinless and an unbeliever is as evil as they can possibly be. These verses are talking about a person walking according to their nature. A Christian has a new nature and an unbeliever doesn't. It's not talking HERE about two natures in one person, it's talking about two different kinds of people with two different kinds of nature. Interpret the passage in it's OWN context before you interpret it using ideas from another context (like Romans 8)

But if anyone disagrees, we can agree to disagree.

1 John 3:8- He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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705
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This is what I see 1 John 3:5-10 and other verses is talking about. Verse 8 and verse 10 confirm it. (see passages in red below). They cannot possibly make it more clear that this passage is not talking about two natures in one person (though that is found in other places), it is talking about two different sorts of people.

They do not say that a Christian is sinless and an unbeliever is as evil as they can possibly be. These verses are talking about a person walking according to their nature. A Christian has a new nature and an unbeliever doesn't. It's not talking HERE about two natures in one person, it's talking about two different kinds of people with two different kinds of nature. Interpret the passage in it's OWN context before you interpret it using ideas from another context (like Romans 8)

But if anyone disagrees, we can agree to disagree.

1 John 3:8- He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
VCO, I am not disagreeing with you in the parts above, it is in FULL agreement to what you said, and the rest is to everyone in general. :)
 

OneOfHis

Active member
Mar 24, 2019
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Yes, and then after justification, we live our lives to God out of love and gratitude, BECAUSE OF OUR NEW NATURE. Not perfectly, but there should be SOME love and gratitude, and concern about other people IF WE ARE BORN OF GOD>

Descriptive of truly regenerate, NOT prescriptive of how to be saved or stay saved. Just a statement of fact about people who have been born of God.

Why quote me?

This thread gives glory and praise to God for salvation...

Who said anything about not loving our Father who loved us first?

You making one of those "red herrings" you complain about so much?
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
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This is what I see 1 John 3:5-10 and other verses is talking about. Verse 8 and verse 10 confirm it. (see passages in red below). They cannot possibly make it more clear that this passage is not talking about two natures in one person (though that is found in other places), it is talking about two different sorts of people.

They do not say that a Christian is sinless and an unbeliever is as evil as they can possibly be. These verses are talking about a person walking according to their nature. A Christian has a new nature and an unbeliever doesn't. It's not talking HERE about two natures in one person, it's talking about two different kinds of people with two different kinds of nature. Interpret the passage in it's OWN context before you interpret it using ideas from another context (like Romans 8)

But if anyone disagrees, we can agree to disagree.

1 John 3:8- He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
And anticipating what will be said next, this post does not deny the two natures. It's just that a believer is called to be putting to death the deeds of one nature, and being built up and strengthened in the other. That is what I mean about walking according to your nature, walking according to the NEW NATURE God has given you, not the old one that has already been crucified with Christ. The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
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Why quote me?

This thread gives glory and praise to God for salvation...

Who said anything about not loving our Father who loved us first?

You making one of those "red herrings" you complain about so much?
It would be a red herring if I was trying to divert from what you said. But I affirm the exact thing that you said and have affirmed it at least 50 times. No, I merely agreed with you and the rest was for everyone in general, just like my post to VCO. post 101954. DO you think my post to VCO was a red herring too?
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
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The ONLY DIFFERENCE is THOSE who only Know About Jesus, but still have not yet been Born Again, Broad Road Christians, still UNSAVED.

AND THOSE who KNOW JESUS Intimately and Personally, having been BORN AGAIN, and they are ON THE NARROW ROAD to Heaven.

Joshua 24:15 (NJB)
15 But if serving Yahweh seems a bad thing to you, today you must make up your minds whom you do mean to serve, whether the gods whom your ancestors served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose country you are now living. As regards my family and me, we shall serve Yahweh.'
Hey, VCO, was my post (101,954) to you a red herring. This question is for "Oneofhis" benefit and information.