Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

This goes to the heart of the problem....they cannot grasp that when the Father looks at us he SEES us through the BLOOD and RIGHTEOUSNESS of JESUS and this is why we are eternally secure..........OUR guilt, sin and condemnation under the law was PLACED upon CHRIST and HIS righteousness was IMPUTED to our ACCOUNT and our DEBT was SATISFIED under the law.....

THIS right here is the truth and ALL workers for and salvation losers DENY these truths..........

Its all seen in the law. When the blood is shed and put on th emercy seat, The 2 cherub can not see the things which condemn a man which is inside the ark. Thus the sins are “covered” or atoned for

 

[dcontroversal]

Its all seen in the law. When the blood is shed and put on th emercy seat, The 2 cherub can not see the things which condemn a man which is inside the ark. Thus the sins are “covered” or atoned for

Oh I know.........though and though we see examples of the biblical truths we stand for and over and over the workers for and salvation losers devalue and denigrate the LORD JESUS, his blood, his work, his sacrifice and their insolence will not go unrewarded.......!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh I know.........though and though we see examples of the biblical truths we stand for and over and over the workers for and salvation losers devalue and denigrate the LORD JESUS, his blood, his work, his sacrifice and their insolence will not go unrewarded.......!!!!

Yet they can not see it.

 

[Noose]

I was previously in a discussion with someone who attends the church of Christ (but can't find the specific post at this time) who made this statement to me: "It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

I was also previously in a discussion with a Roman Catholic (but can't find the specific post at this time) and I clarified to him that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and the Roman Catholic responded by saying, "I know that." Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such: Saved by grace through faith "infused" with works, just not by specific works of the law. Saved through faith + "these" works (good works) just not "those" works (merely limited, specific works of the law) is not what Paul was saying. Paul meant works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

I discovered the ROOT of the problem of the Roman Catholic misinterpretation. That Roman Catholic also made this statement:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. At first this Roman Catholic claimed that the Roman Catholic church did not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, contradicted himself by saying that we are saved by accomplishing this check list of works above.

1. Do you believe loving (love) one another is necessary for salvation?

2. Is love faith?

3. If someone needed food and you provided them because you are able, do you provide them food because of your assurance and hope for salvation (faith) or because of love?

 

[VCO]

What do you mean by joy?

You will KNOW beyond a shadow of a Doubt, when and if you are Born Again.

 

[mailmandan]

1. Do you believe loving (love) one another is necessary for salvation?

2. Is love faith?

3. If someone needed food and you provided them because you are able, do you provide them food because of your assurance and hope for salvation (faith) or because of love?

Do you believe that loving one another is the fruit of salvation or the means of salvation? If you say the means of salvation, then just how much love/acts of charity would it take to obtain salvation? Love is not faith, yet faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) The love of God has been poured out into the hearts of believers by the Holy Spirit who was given to them. (Romans 5:5) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) We show our faith by our works. (James 2:14-18) which is motivated by love.

 

[Noose]

Do you believe that loving one another is the fruit of salvation or the means of salvation? If you say the means of salvation, then just how much love/acts of charity would it take to obtain salvation? Love is not faith, yet faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) The love of God has been poured out into the hearts of believers by the Holy Spirit who was given to them. (Romans 5:5) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) We show our faith by our works. (James 2:14-18) which is motivated by love.

1. If faith is not love then faith alone means nothing. (1 Cor 13:2)

2. Love is not a fruit of faith, love is an independent thing from faith

3. Love MUST be expressed through good works; Even God loved us so much and died for us. If He only had faith in our salvation then we wouldn't be saved at all.

4. You physically provide (works) for the needy because of love and not because of faith (confidence, assurance and hope for salvation), if you provide for someone's needs because of faith, then it is pride and therefore works of the law.

"I'll give him because i'm assured of salvation anyway". This is pride and looking down upon people.

5. Jesus did many good works not because He had faith in Christ or hoped for salvation but because of love; proving that good works are not the fruit of faith but love.

6. Without love, we are nothing.

 

[dcontroversal]

1. If faith is not love then faith alone means nothing. (1 Cor 13:2)

.

False alert............the above is false.....

 

[PS]

The Joy of the LORD is our strength , what He has done for us , what He continues to do for us day by day...
The Joy of our LORD is not by or comes from ourselves , it comes from God , even when our faith is weak , He is our Joy ...
We are Gods workmanship through His power...

You also didn`t answer my question to you from another post...
Why does God give us each morning fresh grace & mercy ?...xox...

If you did reply , then please excuse me for missing your answer...

You sound as though you have the joy bells in your heart. You will probably find as the years go by that your relationship with God will grow even deeper and more mature which is where I am right now basking in His grace and mercy all the days of my life because without the love of God in our hearts, life would not be worth living.

 

[VCO]

1. Do you believe loving (love) one another is necessary for salvation?

2. Is love faith?

3. If someone needed food and you provided them because you are able, do you provide them food because of your assurance and hope for salvation (faith) or because of love?

You almost got that right. Genuine Faith WILL produce GODLY LOVE FOR THE BRETHREN, and others; AFTER WE ARE SAVED. Here read it for yourself:

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

 

[dcontroversal]

You almost got that right. Genuine Faith WILL produce GODLY LOVE FOR THE BRETHREN, and others; AFTER WE ARE SAVED. Here read it for yourself:

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Regardless....ALMOST right still = wrong

 

[PS]

You will KNOW beyond a shadow of a Doubt, when and if you are Born Again.

I know! I was asking about her joy.

 

[VCO]

People have not explained OSAS very well, so I will add the caveat like this: "Provided the believer does not turn away from God of their own free will OSAS is true."

NO, YOU DO NOT LISTEN WITH SPIRITUAL EARS!

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV)
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[VCO]

I know! I was asking about her joy.

You have no tell tail signs of ever having been BORN AGAIN.

WE DO NOT SEE IT.

Tell us how a person is Born Again ? ? ?

 

[Smooth]

What amount of works is deemed good enough to secure one’s salvation?

 

[PS]

NO, YOU DO NOT LISTEN WITH SPIRITUAL EARS!

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV)
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I'm waiting for a spiritual answer, not an angry one.

 

[Noose]

You almost got that right. Genuine Faith WILL produce GODLY LOVE FOR THE BRETHREN, and others; AFTER WE ARE SAVED. Here read it for yourself:

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Faith comes from Love, not the other way round. Read again what you have quoted.

If i have faith (hope and assurance for salvation) and sleep for 70 years, i will still wake up with the same faith.
But i can not claim to love and sleep for 70 years, i must act (works).
The works that come from hope and assurance for salvation are also called pride. Pride is for satan.

 

[Noose]

What amount of works is deemed good enough to secure one’s salvation?

This much:

John 13:34A new commandment I give you:Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another.

 

[PS]

You have no tell tail signs of ever having been BORN AGAIN.

WE DO NOT SEE IT.

Maybe you do not recognise Christian forbearance when you see it.

 

[mailmandan]

1. If faith is not love then faith alone means nothing. (1 Cor 13:2)

In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith is insufficient to save us without producing enough love. Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary in eternity with the Lord, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his saints are and do. We won't need faith and hope then.

2. Love is not a fruit of faith, love is an independent thing from faith

Faith works through love and good works are produced from love, so you are making this out to be more complicated than it really is.

3. Love MUST be expressed through good works; Even God loved us so much and died for us. If He only had faith in our salvation then we wouldn't be saved at all.

MUST or else? Or WILL? So man is saved through faith AND love? How much love does it take?

4. You physically provide (works) for the needy because of love and not because of faith (confidence, assurance and hope for salvation), if you provide for someone's needs because of faith, then it is pride and therefore works of the law.

James said what does it profit a man though he claims to have faith yet he has no works? (James 2:14) Again, faith works through love, so you cannot dissect good works are being the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ.

"I'll give him because i'm assured of salvation anyway". This is pride and looking down upon people.

Giving based on the motivation of getting is pride. Our motivation for giving is love and not pride and expectation to receive salvation based on the merits of our works.

5. Jesus did many good works not because He had faith in Christ or hoped for salvation but because of love; proving that good works are not the fruit of faith but love.

Why would Jesus need faith in Himself? Jesus is God. You cannot dissect good works from being the fruit of faith (Matthew 7:17-20; James 2:14-26) and faith works through love.

6. Without love, we are nothing.

Yet genuine believers are not without love. (Romans 5:5; 1 John 4:7)