Not By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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No one is debating that Christians are guaranteed salvation. The issue is does a sincere moment of faith guarantee that a person will be accepted as a Christian on the day of judgement?

Must a Christian die as a believer or does that past moment of sincere faith guarantee a place in heaven regardless of latter actions and beliefs?
You still do not get it

You will never be “accepted”. No one will, all have are sinning and fall short

Jesus is accepted. And his death is your only hope. You live why? Because he lives. You have passed from death to life based on his work, not yours.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That won't worry OSAS people though will it. They are Always Saved.

To say otherwise is to admit your religion is a nonsense.
Its called eternal life

We have it

You are working to earn it (conditional life)


I pray you find it
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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People have not explained OSAS very well, so I will add the caveat like this: "Provided the believer does not turn away from God of their own free will OSAS is true."
 
Mar 14, 2011
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People have not explained OSAS very well, so I will add the caveat like this: "Provided the believer does not turn away from God of their own free will OSAS is true."
You turn from people who you got close to and you trusted because they came to you and offered you something you desired, who you learn continually fail you. Not because they fail you once or twice. But they show a habit of doing things which are not in your best interest, and when you do what they ask, it always turns into a nightmare.

So if God, who always has our best. Interest at heart. And whenever we do what he asks, we are ALWAYS blessed. And continued to prove faithfull, as he promised, WHY WOULD ANYONE TURN FROM HIM?

I am sorry. If you can not see this, I can only guess you have never experienced it. Because if you had, you would never ask such a question
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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There is NO peace and or biblical hope in a self maintained salvation or salvation that can be lost...........NONE.....
That is why I posted before that they never show any joy , only fear , they do not realise what they are missing , and that is something to be sad about...

The fruit of the Spirit is Joy , where is it in them , they seem so bent on digging deeper into sadness , they must live in fear , missing out on the promises our LORD has given us...xox...
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That is why I posted before that they never show any joy , only fear , they do not realise what they are missing , and that is something to be sad about...

The fruit of the Spirit is Joy , where is it in them , they seem so bent on digging deeper into sadness , they must live in fear , missing out on the promises our LORD has given us...xox...
If they had true joy, instead of judging others, they would be serving them.

Its a false joy, based on a false hope.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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That is why I posted before that they never show any joy , only fear , they do not realise what they are missing , and that is something to be sad about...

The fruit of the Spirit is Joy , where is it in them , they seem so bent on digging deeper into sadness , they must live in fear , missing out on the promises our LORD has given us...xox...
What do you mean by joy?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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You have obviously seen many Works-salvationists posts that you make this statement so casually. Please give me just 3 posts where a person has said "I believe my works are what get me my salvation" or "I don't believe Jesus procured my salvation" or any statement when a person said that "it was by a means other than Jesus". There have got to be a lot for you to choose from to make that statement so casual when it comes to GODS WORD. So please. I have looked myself but seem to be blind to them. If you could just give me post numbers please.
If Jesus sets CONDITIONS on our salvation...it is NOT a gift,,,but a prize we get at the end.

You could see the following verses for this:
Romans 8:24-25
Hebrews 11:1
1 Peter 1:6-9
1 peter 3:15

We have the hope of salvation...Paul speaks about it as something to take place in the future....
We can say we have it now....but we cannot claim it till we have earned it.

IF there were no conditions, then it would be a gift.
Where in the scriptures does it say we are saved by “faith alone”?

The principle of faith requires obedience to activate faith, making it alive, otherwise it’s dead.

JPT
You and others keep on declaring that salvation is given simply only on believing in Jesus Christ and calvary.
Yet in the NT, especially in Acts and the epistles, believing is described and presented as putting repentance into action and
becoming obedient to the commandments of Jesus:
believing in Jesus is to believe in what must I do to be saved ...
repentance > water baptism by full immersion confessing one's faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour for the remission of sins;
to be accompanied by the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues; to walk with the Lord and to
display the fruit of the Spirit.


You can trash, you can berate, you can make all manner of false accusations against Pentecost and in particular - The Revival
Fellowship - but at each meeting when the gift of prophecy is given and God speaks to his children both the Father and Jesus
confirm their great pleasure in a church that wrangles not with the scriptures and is fully obedient to his commandments.
Obedience is not works.
The full gospel of salvation is not a perversion of the gospel.
Twist and turn.
Paul in the simplest of terms is saying 'faith in Christ alone' doesn't save you. Paul is not talking of some kind of faith but faith in Christ.

James 2: 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
My bible states saved by works - "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" James 2:24
I was previously in a discussion with someone who attends the church of Christ (but can't find the specific post at this time) who made this statement to me: "It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

I was also previously in a discussion with a Roman Catholic (but can't find the specific post at this time) and I clarified to him that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and the Roman Catholic responded by saying, "I know that." Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such: Saved by grace through faith "infused" with works, just not by specific works of the law. Saved through faith + "these" works (good works) just not "those" works (merely limited, specific works of the law) is not what Paul was saying. Paul meant works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

I discovered the ROOT of the problem of the Roman Catholic misinterpretation. That Roman Catholic also made this statement:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. At first this Roman Catholic claimed that the Roman Catholic church did not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, contradicted himself by saying that we are saved by accomplishing this check list of works above.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Your verses ring true but they are clearly written more general then Matthew 7:21-23. Surely you can see this?

You cannot take a general statement and use it to make void a more definitive directive. That is poor grammar.
What I see is you trying to undermine John 6:40 in connection with Matthew 7:21.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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What do you mean by joy?
The Joy of the LORD is our strength , what He has done for us , what He continues to do for us day by day...
The Joy of our LORD is not by or comes from ourselves , it comes from God , even when our faith is weak , He is our Joy ...
We are Gods workmanship through His power...

You also didn`t answer my question to you from another post...
Why does God give us each morning fresh grace & mercy ?...xox...

If you did reply , then please excuse me for missing your answer...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes the Bible is clear.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:21-23

These verses do not direct us to believe in the Father but to do the will of the Father in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

A confident expectation in a misunderstood guarantee is not hope but simply false assurance.
The will of the Father is to BELIEVE on the one whom he sent...NOT embellish said belief with religious hoop jumping, works and or some idiotic ability to lose that which is eternally given....!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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No one is debating that Christians are guaranteed salvation. The issue is does a sincere moment of faith guarantee that a person will be accepted as a Christian on the day of judgement?

Must a Christian die as a believer or does that past moment of sincere faith guarantee a place in heaven regardless of latter actions and beliefs?
Sincere faith that saves continues and is not merely a past moment of temporary belief.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Only God knows a persons fate. We have but a hope, a hope based on the promises of Jesus Christ.

We were saved in hope. If we see what we hope for, that isn’t hope. Who hopes for what they already see? Romans 8:24

I do not see my salvation, I humbly hope for my salvation.

OSAS believers disregard this hope and replace it with a surmised notion that salvation is predestined personally for them.

I do not live in anxiety but I am ever careful to keep my lamp full and an eye for my masters return.
That right there is your problem and why you peddle a losable salvation maintained by your own self effort....

JOHN said these things are written that YOU MAY KNOW.....NOT that that we CANNOT SEE or KNOW that we are saved....

GEESH man......you need to trust JESUS and understand that YOU CAN KNOW.......!!!!!!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You are quite correct. Salvation is predestined to those who wait for and obey the Lord. We should all have a hope of being in that predestined group. Thanks for the Greek.
FALSE.....GOD says those that BELIEVE......get that through your head............

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE <------your embellishment wit OBEY = false!!!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I never knew you. How shocking. But we.... we... we were so sure it was true. Just like the rulers in Jesus day.

Who are you? Check out your fruit. It is in your every reply. Written by you. Written in the book. Written in the good book for rewards, or written in the bad book...(well I repent so mine get blotted out, possibly twice??? which is better than maybe once. Gives me much peace, I like peace. I like talking to God. Keeps us quite close, but I am so much better than I started out and some day...my good and faithful servant)

Who is your Father? Who do you serve? For what you have done unto the least, you have done unto me.

How are you treating the Lord?
Exactly....those that add works to faith for <----JESUS does not know them because they trusted a gospel of a different kind with no power to save...fools and bewitched is exactly how Paul describes them......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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line of logic 1: Jesus had fully paid the penalty for all sins (separation from God), past present and future
line of logic 2: once paid in full, the debt is cleared
Therefore, Jesus have made it so that nothing separates us from Him, and that is love

all future sins were forgiven
Therefore, for the rest of your future, nothing separates you from Jesus, because of his forgiveness

which is what Romans 8:38-39 is trying to say

nothing separates you from Jesus = saved (from separation)
Therefore, you are saved for the rest of your future
Therefore, saved forever
Therefore, eternal security
Such simple truth.....those that say it can be lost are absolutely BLIND to these truths you are posting.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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OSAS DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT EITHER. You are Embarrassing yourself with HOW LITTLE YOU Really KNOW about OUR BELIEFS, and how much false GARBAGE you have swallowed thinking it is true when it is PURE FALSE HOG WASH.

You will have to answer to GOD for these THINGS HE HATES:

Proverbs 6:16-19 (ESV)
16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers.
Not only is he embarrassing himself with how little he knows about our belief, but rather more importantly how little he knows/understands of the word of GOD
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You still do not get it

You will never be “accepted”. No one will, all have are sinning and fall short

Jesus is accepted. And his death is your only hope. You live why? Because he lives. You have passed from death to life based on his work, not yours.
This goes to the heart of the problem....they cannot grasp that when the Father looks at us he SEES us through the BLOOD and RIGHTEOUSNESS of JESUS and this is why we are eternally secure..........OUR guilt, sin and condemnation under the law was PLACED upon CHRIST and HIS righteousness was IMPUTED to our ACCOUNT and our DEBT was SATISFIED under the law.....

THIS right here is the truth and ALL workers for and salvation losers DENY these truths..........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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People have not explained OSAS very well, so I will add the caveat like this: "Provided the believer does not turn away from God of their own free will OSAS is true."
FALSE.........we have been BOUGHT and PAID FOR...we are NO LONGER our own.....YOUR VIEW absolutely denigrates and devalues JESUS and his work on our behalf........it is rather sickening and make no mistake...YOU WILL pay the price for your insolence.......!!