Not By Works

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OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Yesterday, I posted verses that all state in some way that "salvation" can be lost. Since then, they are all getting disputed, by some nicely written papers I must admit. And though I will go back and read them all I really am having very much difficulty with it all. But here is my problem.
How could God have ALWAYS HAVE MEANT SOMETHING ELSE? Its like I am being told that " GOD OWN WORDS ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE ME". And I think this is starting to feel a bit like lots of truth but JUST A slight twist that changes the truth to a lie to ......This warning given at the beginning of the book,
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And HE SAID unto the woman, YEA, HATH GOD SAID, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
I find it hard to believe that God wrote the bible so that NO ONE except for those who really studid it in depth could ever pick out its "truths" from its "seemingly truths".

Apparently, I have a problem with "CONTEXT" and I am just reading into such seemly simple verses what ever I want, which seems to never be the message God is trying to convey. IF THIS IS TRUE, I WISH TO APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO MAY HAVE READ ANY COMMENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN DECEIVING IN ANY WAY. I WOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE TRY AND DECEIVE ANYONE ABOUT GODS WORD FOR ANY REASON. I WOULD TURN ON MY MOTHER AND FATHER BEFORE I WOULD EVER DO THAT. PLEASE KNOW THIS IS TRUE. I will, I promise, state my study results. It may take a while. But I will.

If you're taking the time to lay your understanding at Gods feet and pray and worship and study and ask Him to show you what HE wants you to see.... I believe you will be blessed....


When God delievered me from a deep and dangerous false understanding I had read the bible many times... and had to be willing to admit I was wrong...


I just wanted His truth
no matter if I looked like fool or how hard this was going to be I didn't care so long as I saw what He wanted me to see



I will pray you are blessed with the truth and everything you need for assurance and to be the brightest light...


as for the stumbling block that was before me....

God explained it well to me

two of the biggest helps in scripture

were looking at john in new eyes


and romans 9-10 hit me hard

God bless you... and I'm sorry if I ever was hard to understand during our discussions

I really do want the best for you
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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The odd lie is to say I follow God because I am scared of not following God.
Do you see how nuts that sounds?

A double negative. You only do something positive because you are scared of doing something
negative. Nope. This is just nonsense.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
Yesterday, I posted verses that all state in some way that "salvation" can be lost. Since then, they are all getting disputed, by some nicely written papers I must admit. And though I will go back and read them all I really am having very much difficulty with it all. But here is my problem.
How could God have ALWAYS HAVE MEANT SOMETHING ELSE? Its like I am being told that " GOD OWN WORDS ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE ME". And I think this is starting to feel a bit like lots of truth but JUST A slight twist that changes the truth to a lie to ......This warning given at the beginning of the book,
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And HE SAID unto the woman, YEA, HATH GOD SAID, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
I find it hard to believe that God wrote the bible so that NO ONE except for those who really studid it in depth could ever pick out its "truths" from its "seemingly truths".

Apparently, I have a problem with "CONTEXT" and I am just reading into such seemly simple verses what ever I want, which seems to never be the message God is trying to convey. IF THIS IS TRUE, I WISH TO APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO MAY HAVE READ ANY COMMENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN DECEIVING IN ANY WAY. I WOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE TRY AND DECEIVE ANYONE ABOUT GODS WORD FOR ANY REASON. I WOULD TURN ON MY MOTHER AND FATHER BEFORE I WOULD EVER DO THAT. PLEASE KNOW THIS IS TRUE. I will, I promise, state my study results. It may take a while. But I will.
Dear sister, be at peace.
The enemy will always dispute Gods word, His heart and intent.

Anyone who thinks God does not question himself and regret what He does has not read His debates with Moses.
Everything is a balance, eternally especially. And God brings us into this discussion.

So be encouraged that your contributions create discussion and are worthy of consideration, because they reflect
the very heart of God. And the enemy will always try and discourage us, as they did Jesus, and put us to death
and torture if they can, but Praise God in Christ we have the victory, God bless you
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Noose, be clear please.

Thanks
I'm very clear on my side, i don't know about your side.

Luke 8:
11Now this is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12The seedsc along the path are those who hear, but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

13The seeds on rocky ground are those who hear the word and receive it with joy, but they have no root. They believe for a season, but in the time of testing, they fall away.

14The seeds that fell among the thorns are those who hear, but as they go on their way, they are choked by the worries, riches, and pleasures of this life, and their fruit does not mature.

15But the seeds on good soil are those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, cling to it, and by persevering produce a crop.

Group 1. Heard but did not believe the word of God

Group 2. Heard and believed for a while
So, if your thoughts are believing = salvation, then these people heard and were saved for a while. I don't hold such thoughts because to me salvation is the end of a process and not the beginning.

Group 3. Heard and believed but never matured in faith because of cares of this world.
So, if your thoughts are believing= salvation, then these people were slightly saved but never matured. I don't hold such thoughts

Group 4. Noble heart, heard and believed and clang to it and persevered to the end, and were saved because of their efforts. They did something the other groups failed to do.
It is clear that it is not the Lord who clang to the word and persevered on their behalf.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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Engagement

Empathy sometimes can be a downfall.
A sinful deceptive mind that justifies rebellion and evil deeds seeks many routes and avenues
to go down, which simply for us in Christ not worth following.

Either light rules your heart or darkness is there. With light things become simple and plain.
In darkness, argument or empathy is not going to pull the sinner out, only repentance and
cleansing from the Holy Spirit. So it is best sometimes to just leave certain interactions alone,
they are founded on sinful thinking and there is no end to that rabbit hole.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,633
530
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There's nothing like being attached eternally, we have to persevere to the end, then we shall be saved.

Meanwhile, obeying His command all along.
So those who are fruitful, who bears fruit are not attached to Christ eternally?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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John 14:15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever

John 14:21Whoever hasMy commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved byMy Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”
So you are saying those who love and those do his commands are they also not eternally attached to Christ? I think you are doing a haphazard study.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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It most certainly is a bad thing. Actually it’s the worst of the worst. You’re putting your trust in yourself rather than solely in the atoning death and glorious Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Doing good is the "worst of the worst"

This is the justification people have had for mass killings of innocent communities.
They might appear innocent, but they are the "worst of the worst"

In the 20th century millions died because of the idea getting a label made you guilty
of the worst crime possible so could be treated like rubbish, nothing of value, which lead
to starvation, torture, execution etc.

So a discussion of how we walk with Jesus, doing good things, walking in His path can suddenly
get turned into the worst of human civilisation behaviour.

The progression of thoughts are simple, worst of the worst, drivel, garbage, more evil than murderers,
death is a kindness to you, execution is the final solution. And given enough time and these phrases
being repeated, ideas become actions, actions become oppression, oppression becomes imprisonment
and imprisonment becomes murder.

So any group who stumbles into this language has not a part of the Lords word in their approach.
Good deeds are that good. Praise the Lord His is gracious and desires all may know His blessing, no
matter how lost and confused they are, if even one of them still knows how to do good deeds.
God bless you
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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So those who are fruitful, who bears fruit are not attached to Christ eternally?
Again, nothing like being eternally attached. See what Jesus says:

John 15:1I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

The attachment is conditional. Jesus urges them to remain in Him and bear fruit.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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530
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Umm, now you are giving me a LAW. So I'll give what the scriptures about this law.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified bythe faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,633
530
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Again, nothing like being eternally attached. See what Jesus says:

John 15:1I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

The attachment is conditional. Jesus urges them to remain in Him and bear fruit.
read them twice or thrice and study before you quote it.

Thanks
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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So you are saying those who love and those do his commands are they also not eternally attached to Christ? I think you are doing a haphazard study.
If you stop loving, then you don't know God and can't be in Him anymore.

Matt 18:
23Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.e 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.

26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.f He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me.’

29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’

30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.

31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.

32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Umm, now you are giving me a LAW. So I'll give what the scriptures about this law.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified bythe faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

I think you don't understand. No one is justified by the law, we are justified through the one who fulfilled the law by becoming one with Him. How do we become one with Him? By obeying His command. What is the command? Love your neighbor.