Not By Works

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,845
562
113
Hello, just some thoughts from an outsider looking in while catching up on some posts from yesterday. I find it a little sad and hurtful to see some calling themselves Christian while bullying and labeling others with offensive language. Love is a fruit of the Spirit and God says we shall know them by their fruits. This is only shared in love for all that have ears to hear. :confused:
:) I agree completely with you that bullying and labeling and saying others are not believers and are going to hell, etc. is, at least for the most part, uncalled for and not love. On the other hand, if one knows someone is lost and needs to be lovingly confronted in order to save their soul, then it needs to be done.

But most name calling and bullying is not of that sort here on CC. In my experience, when someone is not really able to answer questions well and has a weak position, it is easiest to resort to name-calling, bullying, and "yelling"! :eek:

But I would caution that not all intense language and conversation on CC (especially the BDF) is really "bullying". It is OK to be intense, and I have no problem with that. If someone cannot handle intensity and debate, they had best stick to the other forums! ;)
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,270
338
83
If I were to answer your question,I would immediately be called never saved,a hypocrite,of Satan and his lies, and probably thought of by some as worse! I believe we are eternally secure IF we CONTINUE to overcome sins that easily beset us( for we still war against our own flesh) and walk in the inspired word of God and OBEY all the commandments of Jesus! When the FINAL judgements are made,then shall we see THOSE WHO PERSEVERED IN HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto the END!
is not this a conditional security? true security is somebody had to do it not you because we can not secure ourselves, God does the securing eternally.
 
Aug 11, 2019
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But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


_______

Those who love God, hate lies about Him and His will


Those who love thier neighbor, will tell them the truth... even if they wont like it


there is something to be said for tact

but you are new...
many here you are probably speaking against


have been fighting the good fight against liars and modern day pharisee for many years
Trying to pretend that your friend is Jesus and justifying him bullying another is also shameful. What truth is your friend sharing by telling someone they are Satanic because they believe differently to your friends interpretation of the scriptures? Sorry friend all I am seeing are nasty words not shared in love or meekness when the scriptures say ; Gal 6:1 Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,480
2,520
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In the case of "gty" I tend to run in the other direction....however, does he state what the eye of the needle is?

DID IT ALL !


Apparently it was a common expression in Israel. Even in the Talmud, one such expression was FOR AN ELEPHANT TO PASS TRUTH THE EYE OF A NEEDLE.

It may be that we have to wait until the day we see HIM to ask HIM personally what HE MEANT by that Expression.

Matthew 19:22-26 (HCSB)
22 When the young man heard that command, he went away grieving, because he had many possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “I assure you: It will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven!
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were utterly astonished and asked, “Then who can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Now, look at that last sentence. It it appears Jesus is thinking about a Sewing Needle. But I just picked up on the main TRUTH in this VERSE, and it helps us prove, GOD DID IT ALL. LOOK AT WHAT THE DISCIPLES SAID TO HIM. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR MEN TO SAVE THEMSELVES, YET GOD CAN DO IT. Very interesting Observation, very interesting indeed. I have to save this in my verses that support OSAS.

Now to be fair, I have to look at the Needle Gate Theory. IF it refers to a gate, the only one small enough would be this side entrance to the JUDGEMENT GATE, after the Gate was CLOSED. Here is another thought that just came to me. It looks like someone hurriedly used a Sledge Hammer to knock those blocks out, to make that GATE. Don't it? If it was designed to be a permanent passage way, would it not been more elaborate, if it was used every night after the Gates were Closed? When would it have been built? Not during the time of Jesus, but during the time of the Siege of 70 A.D. ALL THE GATES TO THE CITY WOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED AND BARRACKED. Correct me, if I am wrong, but NO Running Water inside the City Walls, Just Cisterns. Bare in mind that if Archaeologists are right that what they think is the original Temple Mount is in the City of David, just south of the Southern Wall of the City. There was a GATE just East of the New Gate, that was not finished until 1887, called the CORNER GATE and at the time of Christ it was called GENNATH GATE, but there is some speculation that the Corner Gate and Gennath Gate may have been two seperate gate about 50 yards apart, along the same stretch of wall. It was torn down by orders of the King, and then a King after him ordered it rebuilt. There is no info if the Corner Gate was rebuild in the same Location or not. So the Corner Gate was there at the time of Christ. SUPPOSEDLY, according to the Catholics, that is the exit HE took Carrying the Cross out of the walled City to Golgotha.






I have been trying to research this most of today. Had to figure out that the same GATE, changed names at least 3 times. Makes my head spin, had to go to a multitude of websites to get bits and pieces of this info.

So years later the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, laid claim to the Property, walled off the external GATE, renaming it Judgement Gate; and built a huge Cathedral beside it to the right, and today it is called: Holy Sepulchre Church. Notice that Gate is now walled off.

Now I will give you what I speculate, happened during the 70 AD Siege.

1565726277882.jpeg
So I based on my assessment on my personal tour of the Underground City, in south central Turkey, in the Air Force, 1969. They BUILT the Tunnels going down in the City's ten floors, (we were not allowed to go below the fourth flour), But every tunnel that went down to next level, was VERY NARROW HALLWAYS AND VERY LOW CEILINGS, so that an enemy could only attack in single file in a bent over position; so that one guy with a spear or a bow and arrow, could defend against an attacking army by himself. Look at the picture above with a woman coming through the supposed Needle Gate. That was DILIBERATE, so one guy could defend against the whole army of attacking Roman Soldiers. Giving them access to the water in the Pool of Amygdalon, without a FEAR of a Counter Attack. That had to of happened during the 70 AD Siege, and the other gates are all too wide.

So I lean towards, dc being right, it was an expression about God Doing the Impossible, by Saving Men because WE CANNOT FIT THROUGH THE EYE OF A SEWING NEEDLE to save ourselves out of our own efforts.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
If I were to answer your question,I would immediately be called never saved,a hypocrite,of Satan and his lies, and probably thought of by some as worse! I believe we are eternally secure IF we CONTINUE to overcome sins that easily beset us( for we still war against our own flesh) and walk in the inspired word of God and OBEY all the commandments of Jesus! When the FINAL judgements are made,then shall we see THOSE WHO PERSEVERED IN HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto the END!

The bolded is error......it is ALL JESUS or it is fraudulent.......like it or not!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
I truly am so thankful for the ignore option on here for I no longer read negative remarks or questions pointed at me!😁 I am at peace in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,I rest in my Fathers arms,and I walk in the leadership of the Spirit! I am blessed in the joy of the Holy Ghost indwelling as at Pentecost!
This right here is why I raked you over the coals the first couple of times for being a hypocrite....you constantly make negative remarks about others while scrutinizing what they believe and yet when we question your views you pull this card right here....you can dish it, but cannot receive it.....
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
283
599
93
Trying to pretend that your friend is Jesus and justifying him bullying another is also shameful. What truth is your friend sharing by telling someone they are Satanic because they believe differently to your friends interpretation of the scriptures? Sorry friend all I am seeing are nasty words not shared in love or meekness when the scriptures say ; Gal 6:1 Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.
What are you talking about?
Who did I pretend is Jesus?

Also what bullying are you talking about?



noun
  1. 1.
    a person who habitually seeks to harm or intimidate those whom they perceive as vulnerable.

verb
  1. 1.
    seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


_______

Those who love God, hate lies about Him and His will


Those who love thier neighbor, will tell them the truth... even if they wont like it


there is something to be said for tact

but you are new...
many here you are probably speaking against


have been fighting the good fight against liars and modern day pharisee for many years
100% AMEN.........It is amazing how ignorance runs deep and people whine and cry like a 2 year old while judging "FRUIT" in error.....it is not unbiblical to call a spade a spade, use sarcasm, heat and or pointed derogatory names when identifying those that peddle false dogmas and error that leads to hell.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
Then you do not believe in eternal security.

You believe you must save yourself

Which makes sense why you yell at us. Claiming we attack you all. But never yell at your boddies, who are continually attacking those who disagree with them.
2 Greek words = Hypocrite......she can dish it, she supports those that dish it and then mouths us for responding or dishing it ourselves.....
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,056
358
83
I
If you truly believe this is scriptural can you please tell me how much perseverance and overcoming saves?

So far not one person has yet to answer this question using scripture.

I might also add that you really do not know if you are saved then?
Almost none. It isn't God who gives up. Lets say it takes a one. Just one, on how much you need to overcome out of 100. But the person with that one, throws it away and does a negative one. God will not be mocked. Maybe you once did, but when you arrived in front of God you didn't. He is not going to take you. You didn't. Not God. God is the same, no change. You want it, you follow, you get it. You want it, you don't follow, you don't get it. Why would you want God to accept someone who no longer loves Him? Have you ever loved someone and had them turn on you and not love you but hate you and the sight of you and never want to see you and go and live a life you consider an abomination but because you both made promises you now HAVE to keep your end and they are just going to laugh and keep doing what they are doing. God will not be mocked.

You have a person who got "saved" and did all the things that you have done. And one day they did a 180. You say they were "never really saved" I say they "lost their salvation" there is not one bit of difference. God honors those who honor Him, He CAN NOT honor those who don't. God is Just. It would be impossible for Him to do such a thing. It is deceptive to milk fed never make it past the bottle Christians to teach them OSAS. Because they don't know the difference. And now they think they have something they don't and it is gone forever. At least my way of discernment when they walk away, they know exactly what is at stake. They know what they are choosing. NO DECEPTION. TRUTH.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
283
599
93
100% AMEN.........It is amazing how ignorance runs deep and people whine and cry like a 2 year old while judging "FRUIT" in error.....it is not unbiblical to call a spade a spade, use sarcasm, heat and or pointed derogatory names when identifying those that peddle false dogmas and error that leads to hell.....

I know I have been called a worker of satan for saying tounges aren't required for salvation.

Also people like FHS have left subtle remarks that imply I'm not saved or don't have the Holy spirit when I give Jesus glory for keeping me saved...😅

I know my Father in heaven well enough to not let these words effect me.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
is not this a conditional security? true security is somebody had to do it not you because we can not secure ourselves, God does the securing eternally.
My bible ---> HOPE <--> A confident expectation of something guaranteed

Salvation maintainers/losers hope <---> I bought a lottery ticket and HOPE I am good enough to win........
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,910
5,399
113
So I lean towards, dc being right, it was an expression about God Doing the Impossible, by Saving Men because WE CANNOT FIT THROUGH THE EYE OF A SEWING NEEDLE to save ourselves out of our own efforts.
Well then we are in agreement!!

Thanks for doing all that work... I did find the info interesting.... but I agree best to stick to the plain words used rather than go off on some tangent for an explanation.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,270
338
83
If you are on a bus, asking how long do you have to stay on the bus before it arrives at its destination does
not make sense. As long as you stay on the bus you will arrive.

So staying in faith, abiding in Christ, delivers to us eternal life. In a sense we have passed from death to
life by starting and staying on the path.
Did I miss your bus story? Seems those who will arrive are those really in the bus. You really cannot arrive if you are not in the bus. Those who stay in the faith are those "in the faith", those who really abide in Christ are those who are "in Christ" meaning they are already saved, those who possessed or have already had an eternal life not something they will lead you to eternal life. The destination for the saved is in heaven. Yes! we are created in Christ Jesus (born again) unto good works.

1 Corinthians 1:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Ephesians 2:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
283
599
93
100% AMEN.........It is amazing how ignorance runs deep and people whine and cry like a 2 year old while judging "FRUIT" in error.....it is not unbiblical to call a spade a spade, use sarcasm, heat and or pointed derogatory names when identifying those that peddle false dogmas and error that leads to hell.....
Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
Trying to pretend that your friend is Jesus and justifying him bullying another is also shameful. What truth is your friend sharing by telling someone they are Satanic because they believe differently to your friends interpretation of the scriptures? Sorry friend all I am seeing are nasty words not shared in love or meekness when the scriptures say ; Gal 6:1 Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.
If you can defend the following, you are being led of SATAN as well

a. Jesus did not enter the holiest of all in heaven on our behalf
b. Jesus did not have blood to take and sprinkle on the mercy seat for us
c. Once for all does not mean once for all
etc.

Get your facts straight deceiver.....and make no mistake.....SATAN himself would lead someone to say a-c and if you support that crap....you are not of God either.....!!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
113
PS... This is also done on a public forum when the person being spoken of is not even here to defend himself. :cautious:
Shameful!
She gets notifications that she has been mentioned or a response made to her or one her of her posts.....and I get online EVERY DAY with people mentioning me or responding to me or about me while I am not here.....

p.s. Walmart sells diapers and binkis.......