Not By Works

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FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Freewill, whomsoever would, and those "woulds" must continue on in His way. I realize you do not agree with this knowledge. Must we argue? You are sure in your salvation, I am sure of mine. All good. The only problem is any doctrine that has the potential to leave some believing a lie. I am hoping some one would lay it all out together in one cohesive paper and end the "misconceptions and/or misunderstandings"
Here is a strange contradiction in the absolute assurance of faith.
If you need test your faith you are then in unbelief so sin, and have rejected Christ, the unforgivable sin
in their book, except that is impossible as you are actually safe in Christ.

So in truth they do not have assurance because they can never ask the question to find out.
It is why it becomes a doctrine of intellectualism and not the heart. So much so if we raise these
issues we are satan attacking their faith which is unshakable. This is so contrary to Pauls view,
that we should test ourselves, because being true and loving is more important than appearing
to have faith but ending up with nothing.

Paul was so concerned his gospel might have been wrong he went in private to Jerusalem to
make sure he was preaching correctly. Now that is living faith with a living relationship and
a real foundation. I doubt many on the other side really know this in their hearts and just see
opposition as the enemy, but do not know why it is there.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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I put a smily face because in my heart I rejoice in the Lord.
I simply cannot relate to folk who are so lost in their own imaginings, I just rejoice in Jesus.

Because for them breaking words, making assertions, going back on them, slandering, not listening
or knowing scripture and the Spirit makes the exchanges non-existant, I just praise the Lord.

I used to empathise and try and comprehend, but there is no point.
If you take what is most precious to someone, trample on them, desecrate what they hold most dear
and then claim to follow the same Lord, clearly nothing is getting through let alone true feelings
or respect or time. It is funny the Jonestown massacre, I know the idiology and emphasis so well,
the idealism slipping into exploitation and abuse, and then its final end.

To know someone could take my love, and put me there, now that was staggering.
If you have lived in christian communities, know what the idealism is in the church, the power of
the cross and the Lord moving, it is almost blasphemy. I had a shred of hope, a sense of no one would
go there, no one would play games and use symbolism to draw parrallels and claim they know Jesus
and we do not.

But we have found such a group. There is a special place of judgement for such who do this, and use
this approach. It is the closest I know of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus implied that for some
there is no way back. It seems once this place is reached it just gets worse.

Time will tell but the antagonism seems groundless yet the bile still flows, and without end or even
justification. So I can just praise the Lord, and sing to His sweet name. Amen.
Write for those who read, not for those who write. Spread the wisdom and knowledge to
'those', as that is when you come forth with those messages of Hope and Love from God in clear and concise ways. There may not be any 'thumbs us
or green checks or replies, but they are there. It is where you shine. I have read them, I have been inspired, I have seen God in your work. Time is short as you know. These are the works that will clothe you. These are the only things you will be taking with you. Just giving a point of view. God Bless you always
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
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They cannot logically address it...it is clear.....and YET they will sweep it under the table, explain it away or say that we do not understand it..........
These guys cannot emplain the verse and present their meaning, just make disparaging remarks when
clearly faith is counted as righteousness, and the fruit of faith is good works and a changed life.

But the reality that every man and woman of God had a changed life, dynamically stood out for what
they did is ignored for the idea they believed and that was good enough.

No they had faith that led to action, and what great action that was, it changed history and upon
these actions the Kingdom of God is built. So likewise we are called to action, to good works, to words
of faith and love, Praise the Lord, the King of Glory, Amen.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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Bear in mind free will is not absolute freedom.

Which lie?
Choose life.

Baby Christians given enough knowledge for faith to see them through to baptism and believe they were fertile ground and hence forth forever saved, not knowing till they stand in front of God that they were rocky ground only.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
113
Write for those who read, not for those who write. Spread the wisdom and knowledge to
'those', as that is when you come forth with those messages of Hope and Love from God in clear and concise ways. There may not be any 'thumbs us
or green checks or replies, but they are there. It is where you shine. I have read them, I have been inspired, I have seen God in your work. Time is short as you know. These are the works that will clothe you. These are the only things you will be taking with you. Just giving a point of view. God Bless you always
I agree, I should be more focused. I am though in my heart less structured and more inspired.
I need as you see need to think of the rounded message and its application. God is so good.
Thank you for this blessing, God bless you.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,195
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No way to know until we have the chance to talk to him, but I have no doubt that the moment the thief on the cross received God’s grace, he no longer felt any pain or sorrow. That’s the power of grace.
Like you said, no way to know....but for sure when he gave up the proverbial ghost he stepped into paradise with Jesus
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,195
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Hmm is "that crop" a Missouri expression?

The context tells me it was not the corn fields?

So then do you mean those (that crop) who deny Grace and saved by Grace through faith?
HAHAHHAHA "CRAP" was the word.........a typo on my part HAHAHHAH
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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BLUE...what they are peddling is BS.......

Being born again IS being saved and BOTH are spoken of in SAME TENSE......just a different way of saying the SAME THING.....

EXCEPT a man be born again he cannot SEE the kingdom of HEAVEN

HAVING BEEN BORN AGAIN from above by incorruptible SEED <--PAST TENSE

In the GRACE you are, having been SAVED out of faith..........<----PAST TENSE

ONE and the same......being born again is descriptive of being saved


and no need to apologize my friend
Really?...pray tell me then what this means......"it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement"...? What judgement is the Bible referring too and what is the judgement for if we are saved while on this earth?
You are not being biblical.

I have challenged you before on this same issue and you go and hide. Face the issue and we can all learn.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,195
20,126
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Really?...pray tell me then what this means......"it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement"...? What judgement is the Bible referring too and what is the judgement for if we are saved while on this earth?
You are not being biblical.

I have challenged you before on this same issue and you go and hide. Face the issue and we can all learn.
You can dream and be delusional all you want...your false drivel challenges no one except maybe Mickey Mouse or the writer of Looney Tunes pal......
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,658
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I don’t want to argue with anyone, nor will I, but the concept of God dangling salvation like a preverbal carrot does not correspond with the magnitude of God sacrificing His Son. That’s my two cents.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,583
1,542
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Really?...pray tell me then what this means......"it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement"...? What judgement is the Bible referring too and what is the judgement for if we are saved while on this earth?
You are not being biblical.

I have challenged you before on this same issue and you go and hide. Face the issue and we can all learn.
Believers have ALREADY DIED and been raised to everlasting life, typified by the ritual of baptism. How can anyone fail to misunderstand this doctrine? It is everywhere in the NT. Anyone entering into "judgement" cannot possibly be a believer.

John 8:51

“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

Why? Because those who keep His word have been raised to life everlasting.

Rev 20:6

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years."
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,195
20,126
113
Believers have ALREADY DIED and been raised to everlasting life, typified by the ritual of baptism. How can anyone fail to misunderstand this doctrine? It is everywhere in the NT. Anyone entering into "judgement" cannot possibly be a believer.

John 8:51

“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

Why? Because those who keep His word have been raised to life everlasting.

Rev 20:6

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years."
Good luck........he has been engaged by many of us, using a plethora of scripture, verb tense, had the Bema seat of Christ explained as well as the Great White Throne judgment of God, the fact that NO all die and are immediately given their celestial bodies, all the tenses of Salvation, David speaking of his salvation in the present tense and on and on and on......

He absolutely reject truth, denies truth, peddles fallacy and refuses to be open to anything not hammered out on his own anvil of error.....

A complete waste of time to engage him...
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,658
113
Believers have ALREADY DIED and been raised to everlasting life, typified by the ritual of baptism. How can anyone fail to misunderstand this doctrine? It is everywhere in the NT. Anyone entering into "judgement" cannot possibly be a believer.

John 8:51

“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

Why? Because those who keep His word have been raised to life everlasting.

Rev 20:6

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years."
John 5:24 speaks directly to it.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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I’m so far behind so sorry...but

David did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. His anointing was upon not within.

I do agree with what you are saying about all the world is saved. The stone in the road is the rock called Christ though who has to be picked up. Received to benefit. Not received? No change of nature. Cannot dwell with Father without.
Isa 61:1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted,to proclaim liberty to the captives and release from darkness to the prisoners,

Jesus

Luke 4:
16Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, 17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,
because He has anointed Me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent Mee to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,264
3,723
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Choose life.

Baby Christians given enough knowledge for faith to see them through to baptism and believe they were fertile ground and hence forth forever saved, not knowing till they stand in front of God that they were rocky ground only.


You have to have the Baptism conducted by the Holy Spirit FIRST where HE immerses you into the Spiritual BODY of CHRIST, or the sinners goes into the waters of baptism and only comes up just a WET sinner.

THIS IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES.

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit [including the thief on the Cross] into one body
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14 So the body is not one part but many.

I REPEAT, That is the BAPTISM that SAVES YOU.

Christian Water Baptism is only a Publically identifies you as a follower of CHRIST.

1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat. Only a few peopleeight in allwere saved by water.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,583
1,542
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John 5:24 speaks directly to it.
Amen.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,343
2,123
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Why are you against once saved always saved......it is just another of saying saved eternally, eternal security, the security of the believer.....

To be honest is really bothers me that people who embrace eternal security have an issue with once saved always saved.

I have noticed people take OSAS and pretend it is a denomination in itself, they will take the beliefs of lets say "Fredrickjoebob" who may indeed not be born again and instead of having new desires gives an example of one who does indeed not appreciate Gods grace.

Then lump that with those who have been born again and trust in the promises of God and know what they mean.... eternal security for His children...


Personally I never signed up for an acronym, I dislike the stimga that comes with "osas"...

But I do believe once saved, always saved.

So when someone calls me OSAS I just let it slide and go into the difference between wrongly believing youre saved, and actually being born again...


I'd rather none of us hold on to acronyms and all just let our own beliefs stand on His word in discussion.



Too many times people have used strawmen and swung at "calvinists" or "baptists" or "osas" or whatever else... when I simply stated what God's word said....

these man made titles sometimes make it easier to spot cultish members like the mormons..or JW...
but usually get in the way of solid debate

no?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Choose life.

Baby Christians given enough knowledge for faith to see them through to baptism and believe they were fertile ground and hence forth forever saved, not knowing till they stand in front of God that they were rocky ground only.
A saved person is saved.... no lie there only truth.
That is the promise of God who is complete truth.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,908
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In my opinion, Every True OSAS or ES Believer, WILL because of the CHANGE in his or her Human Spirit, from the Born Again experience; WILL Want to, and Strive to Obey the LORD, purely out of Godly LOVE, after they are SAVED.

Poeple who go to Church, and the rest of the week, are under the influence of Satan; have never been truly Born Again, and are NOT True OSAS Believers.

*
Sitting on a PEW, does Not Make you a True Christian,
any more than sitting in a Garage would make you a true CAR.

Hence this VERSE is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

1 John 2:19-20 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
I agree, true believers strives to obey the calling of God after they are saved. We pressed on...

Philippians 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.