Not By Works

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KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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Yup that new KJV really DID change the Tyndale version, NOT GOOD! I'll stick to the Tyndale instead of that modern KJV.
I've never read the Tyndale version so I can't make a comment on that.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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In your opinion what are those verses trying to convey, how the love of God is manifest or what regeneration means?
God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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OK, good. You understand the MEANS of regeneration, but not yet the meaning of regeneration.

Now read this, if you would please...this will explain precisely what regeneration means
Why would I care what James strong or another whatever he is, says? I have a bible that tells me exactly what regeneration is, I don't need a, at best, baby Christian and at worst, LOST PERSON explaining what the bible means to me. I'm referring to James Strong and the likes, not you.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Why would I care what James strong or another whatever he is, says? I have a bible that tells me exactly what regeneration is, I don't need a, at best, baby Christian and at worst, LOST PERSON explaining what the bible means to me. I'm referring to James Strong and the likes, not you.
Well you can check any Greek lexicon and they will agree with my definition of regeneration.

But again, here is my answer to your question about Titus 3:5 again.

God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,308
951
113
God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
Now you're doing it right.... considering the context FIRST.
The KJV says that God manifest his love by 1) Saving us 2) washing us with the word 3) renewing us with the Holy Spirit.

Since those are three evidences of God's love, then Saving us IS NOT regeneration, regeneration IS NOT the renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Each are those are THREE DIFFERENT evidences of God's love on us.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,308
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Well you can check any Greek lexicon and they will agree with my definition of regeneration.

But again, here is my answer to your question about Titus 3:5 again.

God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
Salvation is INSTANTANEOUS, the washing of regeneration takes time, sometimes a long, long, long time (10 years for me).

Are you saying that you were saved, regenerated by the word and renewed by the Holy Spirit INSTANTANEOUSLY?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Salvation is INSTANTANEOUS, the washing of regeneration takes time, sometimes a long, long, long time (10 years for me).

Are you saying that you were saved, regenerated by the word and renewed by the Holy Spirit INSTANTANEOUSLY?
When you are saved you are made a new creature instantly. But learning to walk takes time
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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When you are saved you are made a new creature instantly. But learning to walk takes time
So you are you agreeing that salvation and the washing of regeneration which comes from reading the word ARE NOT the same thing?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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So you are you agreeing that salvation and the washing of regeneration which comes from reading the word ARE NOT the same thing?
Regeneration is PART of salvation, but not the whole. There are many aspects or facets of salvation.

Regeneration

Adoption

Justification

Sanctification

Preservation

Glorification

All are works of God, by God, not of us or by us

Have to get ready for church. Have a blessed one
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Salvation is INSTANTANEOUS, the washing of regeneration takes time, sometimes a long, long, long time (10 years for me).

Are you saying that you were saved, regenerated by the word and renewed by the Holy Spirit INSTANTANEOUSLY?
Mr KJV I cannot see regeneration to be a process. I would have to agree with @Macabeus on this one.

Understanding scripture through our personal experience of the new birth can be a problem.
God does not need to time to accomplish the new birth in us, it is accomplished when we believe.

It is lack of understanding on our part that is the cause for our not living out our "new status in Christ"...... and this is why we have all those letters.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,308
951
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Regeneration is PART of salvation, but not the whole. There are many aspects or facets of salvation.

Regeneration

Adoption

Justification

Sanctification

Preservation

Glorification

All are works of God, by God, not of us or by us

Have to get ready for church. Have a blessed one
Well that’s the gospel according to Mac. We’re talking about the gospel according to Titus. The two views, yours and Titus conflict.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Well that’s the gospel according to Mac. We’re talking about the gospel according to Titus. The two views, yours and Titus conflict.
Ummm...you mean gospel according to Paul right. Everything I said is from the writings of Paul, and Paul wrote Titus.

Name one thing I said that you think is anti-Pauline and I will give a text where he said the same thing

Guaranteed
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,308
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Mr KJV I cannot see regeneration to be a process. I would have to agree with @Macabeus on this one.

Understanding scripture through our personal experience of the new birth can be a problem.
God does not need to time to accomplish the new birth in us, it is accomplished when we believe.

It is lack of understanding on our part that is the cause for our not living out our "new status in Christ"...... and this is why we have all those letters.
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,308
951
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Ummm...you mean gospel according to Paul right. Everything I said is from the writings of Paul, and Paul wrote Titus.

Name one thing I said that you think is anti Pauline and I will give a text where he said the same thing

Guaranteed
We’re talking about Titus Mac. The gospel according to Titus.

Tit 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
Dec 27, 2018
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I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
Great post, UG 👍
 
Dec 27, 2018
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We’re talking about Titus Mac. The gospel according to Titus.

Tit 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus, which was written by Paul. So it is the gospel according to Paul, not Mac. And you are correct in that it is the gospel according to the BOOK of Titus, written by Paul.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
Interesting .... definitely spiritual
Not sure if the renewing of our mind is regeneration :unsure:
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
Really I should not state too much since I have not read the debate, but you have peaked my curiosity and if this rain persists I may have time to go back and read.:)
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Umm. it seems to me that no salvation losers/worker is around the corner. Is this good news in this long traveled thread?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Titus 3:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit

The appearance of the kindness and love of God came by:
  1. Saving us.
  2. What is the second thing that shows the appearance of the love of God?
  3. What is the third thing that shows the appearance of the love of God?
NASB gospel for that verse - God manifest his love for us by saving us ONLY. That salvation came by 1)the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.


Titus 3:5 King James Version (KJV)

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The appearance of the kindness and love of God came by:
  1. Saving us.
  2. He washed us with the washing of regeneration. (not regular water, living water)
  3. He renewed us with the renewing of the Holy Ghost.
KJV gospel for that verse - God manifest his love for us by saving us by 1) Saving us, 2) washing us with the word 3) renewing us with the Holy Ghost.

Two VERY DIFFERENT gospels. The HSCB says exactly the same thing as the NASB but the wording is slightly different.

The context of Titus 3 is the manifestation of God's love. Which gospel is true, the KJV OR the NAASB/HSCB?
In the KJV it sounds like regeneration and renewing are included in salvation. The NASB also makes it sound like regeneration and renewing are included in salvation. The thing I don't like that the NASB says is that part where it says " deeds which we have done in righteousness". In Isaiah 64:6 our righteousness is compared to " filthy rags"