Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,401
Dec 27, 2018
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#109,401
KJV1611 said:
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

I'm willing to go step by step on this if you are.

What does DEAD IN SINS mean?
I say it means that we are still in our sins, under the law and do not have life - ETERNAL LIFE.
Anyone who is not saved is dead, it's just a matter of time before it is manifested.
Anyone who is saved IS NOT dead, we have entered into ETERNAL LIFE.
Click to expand...
Eternal life is spiritual in nature

If you do not have eternal life, you are dead spiritually

Eternal life begins at spiritual resurrection
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,403
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#109,403
KJV1611 said:
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

I'm willing to go step by step on this if you are.

What does DEAD IN SINS mean?
I say it means that we are still in our sins, under the law and do not have life - ETERNAL LIFE.
Anyone who is not saved is dead, it's just a matter of time before it is manifested.
Anyone who is saved IS NOT dead, we have entered into ETERNAL LIFE.
Click to expand...
So did you read the passages and see that regeneration is not the same as being renewed in mind

Regeneration happens once, at salvation. Titus 3:5

Mind renewal is commanded th people who are already saved (Romans 12:1-2$
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,406
Dec 27, 2018
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#109,406
dcontroversal said:
This is why I cannot logically engage you....You cannot see past your own nose...…..and the BOLDED PROVES YOU DO NOT READ WHAT I WRITE and or are HONEST with what I WRITE
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I have a car in my driveway. I know if I put the key in the ignition the car will start. But I know that putting the key in the ignition is not the ONLY thing that caused the car to start.

Faith is like the key. The power of God is EVERYTHIanG
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,407
Dec 27, 2018
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#109,407
CherieR said:
Cool
Click to expand...
Did you know that jesus asked Peter two times if he loved him (agape). But Peter replied that he was fond of Jesus. (Different love, Phileo). In my own study, I think that Peter was hesitant to profess agape, because of his failing in denying Jesus. So the third time Jesus uses phileo instead of agapeo

Then he tells Peter that next time he won’t deny Him, and prophecies that Peter will lay down his life for his faith one day

Jesus was healing Peters broken and discouraged heart. And saying in effect. You were weak, but from henceforth, YOU WILL BE THE ROCK that I named you

The day of Pentecost then changed Peter into a bold, uncompromising soldier for Christ

Not what the sermon was about, but what I got out of personal reading this morning
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#109,408
May 6, 2017
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#109,408
Macabeus said:
Did you know that jesus asked Peter two times if he lived him (agape). But Peter replied that he was fond of Jesus. (Different love, Phileo). In my own study, I think that Peter was hesitant to profess agape, because of his failing in denying Jesus. So the third time Jesus uses phileo instead of agapeo

Then he tells Peter that next time he won’t deny Him, and prophecies that Peter will lay down his life for his faith one day

Jesus was healing Peters broken and discouraged heart
Click to expand...
I heard something about Peter replying with phileo. It has been a little while since hearing a sermon on that.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#109,409
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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#109,409
UnderGrace said:
So someone without visible works is not saved..... completely disagree, Sorry:(
Click to expand...


John 14:15 (NASB)
15 "If you love Me [ARE BORN AGAIN], you will keep [.WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.] My commandments.

[.NO AND'S, IF'S, OR MAYBE'S AT ALL. THAT IS WILL WANT TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE THEIR. NO, WE ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT THAT STRIVING TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE WILL BE OBVIOUS. IT IS PART OF "LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE."]

You do KNOW, that theology you just presented is PART OF THE LIBERAL EVANGELICAL theology ?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,410
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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#109,410
CherieR said:
I heard something about Peter replying with phileo. It has been a little while since hearing a sermon on that.
Click to expand...
I didn’t connect it with Peter hesitant to profess agape because of his past failure until today
And then what Jesus said at the end about Peter laying down His Life. I saw the text in a new and powerful way that I had not seen before
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,411
Dec 27, 2018
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#109,411
dcontroversal said:
Sorry......your worldly analogy will not trump ALL the verses that use faith/belief/believe as the means of salvation BASED UPON GRACE.....and your sarcasm reeks of a losing position.......!
Click to expand...
I have a tv in my bedroom. The only way to turn it on is remote control. I hate TVs with no power switches

But I know that the remote control is not the only thing involved in turning on a telly🙂
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#109,412
#109,412
mailmandan said:
So you believe ALL faith is the same whether it’s a bare profession of faith that produces no works or authentic faith that produces works?

Do you also believe that ALL belief is the same? In James 2:19, we read - You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! In Acts 16:31, we read - Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Are the demons saved?
Click to expand...
Mr. Dan I did not say that.....there is only one faith and it is the faith that saves.

Anyone who is not born again has not exercised faith (faith being persuaded by hearing truth).

Therefore is no "spurious faith"... that is Calvinist/Lordship salvation doctrine.

James was asked that questions about demons by his Jewish brethren, he knew what they were stating as part of their arguments.
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#109,414
May 6, 2017
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#109,414
Macabeus said:
I didn’t connect it with Peter hesitant to profess agape because of his past failure until today
And then what Jesus said at the end about Peter laying down His Life. I saw the text in a new and powerful way that I had not seen before
Click to expand...
What I find interesting is how Jesus says of Peter that he is clean before Peter denied him. I bet Peter felt awkward about Jesus washing his feet because at first he would not let Jesus wash his feet. I see Jesus washing the disciples feet as symbolic of the need for our walk to be " washed" in that Jesus makes us more like himself in our Christian walk. And also it is easy for feet to get dirty if you are barefoot. So Jesus cleanses his people from their daily sins. Just some thoughts I was thinking on some yesterday.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#109,415
Aug 16, 2019
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#109,415
VCO said:
John 14:15 (NASB)
15 "If you love Me [ARE BORN AGAIN], you will keep [.WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.] My commandments.

[.NO AND'S, IF'S, OR MAYBE'S AT ALL. THAT IS WILL WANT TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE THEIR. NO, WE ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT THAT STRIVING TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE WILL BE OBVIOUS. IT IS PART OF "LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE."]

You do KNOW, that theology you just presented is PART OF THE LIBERAL EVANGELICAL theology ?
Click to expand...
UnderGrace used the phrase, “visible works”. What is always visible to God is often not visible to people. Is this the discrepancy between your point of view and hers?
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#109,416
May 3, 2017
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#109,416
Macabeus said:
Did you know that jesus asked Peter two times if he loved him (agape). But Peter replied that he was fond of Jesus. (Different love, Phileo). In my own study, I think that Peter was hesitant to profess agape, because of his failing in denying Jesus. So the third time Jesus uses phileo instead of agapeo

Then he tells Peter that next time he won’t deny Him, and prophecies that Peter will lay down his life for his faith one day

Jesus was healing Peters broken and discouraged heart. And saying in effect. You were weak, but from henceforth, YOU WILL BE THE ROCK that I named you

The day of Pentecost then changed Peter into a bold, uncompromising soldier for Christ

Not what the sermon was about, but what I got out of personal reading this morning
Click to expand...
Hi Mac...
@BillG I believe has posted the same thing as yourself , your post brought back memories of his post , Agape love , I still have so much to learn...xox...
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,417
Dec 27, 2018
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#109,417
CherieR said:
What I find interesting is how Jesus says of Peter that he is clean before Peter denied him. I bet Peter felt awkward about Jesus washing his feet because at first he would not let Jesus wash his feet. I see Jesus washing the disciples feet as symbolic of the need for our walk to be " washed" in that Jesus makes us more like himself in our Christian walk. And also it is easy for feet to get dirty if you are barefoot. So Jesus cleanses his people from their daily sins. Just some thoughts I was thinking on some yesterday.
Click to expand...
Good stuff👍🙂
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,419
Dec 27, 2018
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#109,419
Lightskin said:
UnderGrace used the phrase, “visible works”. What is always visible to God is often not visible to people. Is this the discrepancy between your point of view and hers?
Click to expand...
But MMD said nothing about no visible works equals not saved, so why attribute to MMD something he didn’t say in the first place?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#109,420
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#109,420
Lightskin said:
UnderGrace used the phrase, “visible works”. What is always visible to God is often not visible to people. Is this the discrepancy between your point of view and hers?
Click to expand...
No. The discrepancy is that MMD did not say “no visible works means not saved”. The word visible was supplied by UG, not MMD. 🙂
 
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