Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
1,372
1,561
113
Yep they do along with preaching a license to sin.

You can tell them until you are blue on the face that what they accuse us of per the above we don't preach/teach that at all and they just ignore it.
Thanks for sharing your insight, brother. I completely agree with your analysis.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,038
2,906
113
When worker bees are asked what specific works must be done to maintain salvation, they never have an answer. I ask again, what specific works must one do to maintain salvation?
the real answer is- religion is about control . there has to be some type of threat to keep the people in line.

I have heard with my own ears, guys standing close to me, the guys being pastors , saying they had " keep them in line ' sermons, or " housekeeping " sermons .

so, I have keep myself in a line right out the door of a few churches over the years after hearing this....
 

Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
925
140
43
When worker bees are asked what specific works must be done to maintain salvation, they never have an answer. I ask again, what specific works must one do to maintain salvation?
Fulfill pisteuo daily.

1) surrender our lives to God daily, hourly if necessary.
2) believe God has accepted, tested, maintaining, and complete the surrendered life.
3) makeing all our daily decisions supporting the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.
4) have good courage.
5) endurance

These aren't works that are added to Grace, Grace is a completed work and is given to the world as a gift from God.
The five points above are how we must recieve that gift, by Faith, by faithing, by pisteuo according to the NT writers.

If pisteuo stops, salvation stops. It's described as like melting snow in the Greek texts. But once a faither has received the Spirit of Christ, it's harder for one like that to get out of God's will, than it is to stay in it. The filling of the Spirit of Christ doesn't happen at the moment of a Belief, it happens after the surrendered life has been accepted, tested, and grafted on.

So my light skinned brother, which points do you have questions about?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
486
83
Fulfill pisteuo daily.

1) surrender our lives to God daily, hourly if necessary.
2) believe God has accepted, tested, maintaining, and complete the surrendered life.
3) makeing all our daily decisions supporting the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.
4) have good courage.
5) endurance

These aren't works that are added to Grace, Grace is a completed work and is given to the world as a gift from God.
The five points above are how we must recieve that gift, by Faith, by faithing, by pisteuo according to the NT writers.

If pisteuo stops, salvation stops. It's described as like melting snow in the Greek texts. But once a faither has received the Spirit of Christ, it's harder for one like that to get out of God's will, than it is to stay in it. The filling of the Spirit of Christ doesn't happen at the moment of a Belief, it happens after the surrendered life has been accepted, tested, and grafted on.

So my light skinned brother, which points do you have questions about?
So this won't allow a baby or carnal Christians. It makes a false assurance, hence, to 'surrender hourly' and why is it necessary? this according to you is to maintain salvation.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,077
2,929
113
the real answer is- religion is about control . there has to be some type of threat to keep the people in line.

I have heard with my own ears, guys standing close to me, the guys being pastors , saying they had " keep them in line ' sermons, or " housekeeping " sermons .

so, I have keep myself in a line right out the door of a few churches over the years after hearing this....
They have to keep them in line??????
Housekeeping sermons?????????? (I wonder how much they skim them for?)

Very sad indeed to hear this. I've not seen or heard it to that extent.
If I had then like you I would have made an about turn just like you.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,930
2,808
113
So this won't allow a baby or carnal Christians. It makes a false assurance, hence, to 'surrender hourly' and why is it necessary? this according to you is to maintain salvation.
You forgot something:

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
486
83
You forgot something:

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
Ya, thanks and I like "knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned." For me, those who are against the gospel truth are SELF- CONDEMNED, serving self and self-righteous.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,077
2,929
113
So this won't allow a baby or carnal Christians. It makes a false assurance, hence, to 'surrender hourly' and why is it necessary? this according to you is to maintain salvation.
Actually it's not only to maintain salvation but to earn it in order to maintain it.

Pisteuo said:
Fulfill pisteuo daily.

1) surrender our lives to God daily, hourly if necessary.
2) believe God has accepted, tested, maintaining, and complete the surrendered life.
3) makeing all our daily decisions supporting the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.
4) have good courage.
5) endurance
Point 1 leads into point 2.

Surrender our lives daily, hourly if necessary, then believe God HAS accepted tested and so on and complete the surredered life.

Now if we surrender our lives how on earth can we believe that God has accepted us based on that surrendered life?

If we can and he does accept how can God complete the surrendered life?
If our surrendered life is enough to be accepted nothing is left to completed?

Even if it's completed by us and accepted how can God complete it further?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
1,372
1,561
113
You forgot something:

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
The above post was given a surprise face by a new member . . . a DConn imposter. Literally. 😆
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,077
2,929
113
Fulfill pisteuo daily.

1) surrender our lives to God daily, hourly if necessary.
2) believe God has accepted, tested, maintaining, and complete the surrendered life.
3) makeing all our daily decisions supporting the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.
4) have good courage.
5) endurance

These aren't works that are added to Grace, Grace is a completed work and is given to the world as a gift from God.
The five points above are how we must recieve that gift, by Faith, by faithing, by pisteuo according to the NT writers.

If pisteuo stops, salvation stops. It's described as like melting snow in the Greek texts. But once a faither has received the Spirit of Christ, it's harder for one like that to get out of God's will, than it is to stay in it. The filling of the Spirit of Christ doesn't happen at the moment of a Belief, it happens after the surrendered life has been accepted, tested, and grafted on.

So my light skinned brother, which points do you have questions about?
If grace is a completed work and is given as a gift then the five points above are what we have to do to the receive the gift then actually it's not a gift at all.

However if we know it's a gift and we accept that gift then points 1,3,4&5 I agree with.

Point 2 I will always disagree with because you say that we be accepted based on what we do when it's tested and approved by God.

We are accepted as a result of genuine faith in Jesus which leads to points 1,3,4 and 5 because we have been given the Holy Spirit who came to convict us off the sin on unbelief in Jesus which we repent off.

PS do you only surrender hourly?
If so then it's not complete surrender.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,930
2,808
113
Yep they do along with preaching a license to sin.

You can tell them until you are blue on the face that what they accuse us of per the above we don't preach/teach that at all and they just ignore it.

I have been in Conservative Evangelical types of Churches, that TEACH LORDSHIP SALVATIONISM, ever sense I have been SAVED in 1977. And we have been in several of them because we moved a lot over the years.

NEVER ONCE HAVE I HEARD A PASTOR TEACH "A LICENSE TO SIN", NOT EVEN CLOSE THAT THEORY. So you are blackening the most of us Lordship Salvationists, along with the relative FEW CHURCHES THAT TEACH THAT ERROR. I OBJECT and AM OFFENDED by anyone who has the willingness to paint all of us, like the few who do teach that ERROR.

ALL WE MEAN BY THE EXPRESSION "LORDSHIP SALVATION", IS WE ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THESE VERSES LITERALLY.


Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [.not just simply profess.] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


Part of our BELIEFS, is that a truly Born Again Believer, WILL EXHIBIT the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT, in his new born spiritual Character. Gal. 5:22-23

AND when he stumbles, will be burdened by SIN, until HE CONFESSES it to GOD. 1 John 1:9
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,077
2,929
113
NEVER ONCE HAVE I HEARD A PASTOR TEACH "A LICENSE TO SIN", NOT EVEN CLOSE THAT THEORY. So you are blackening the most of us Lordship Salvationists, along with the relative FEW CHURCHES THAT TEACH THAT ERROR. I OBJECT and AM OFFENDED by anyone who has the willingness to paint all of us, like the few who do teach that ERROR.
Whoa bro what you saying to me here?

I never said I heard a pastor teach a license to so.

So your blackening?
I assume that you are referring to me.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,077
2,929
113
Man's opinion means very little to me.
The Lord has confirmed what He has given to me to preach, and that's all I need.
As Jesus, the Prophets and Apostles had to deal with such self-centered, unrepentant folk as well, I know I am in good company. :)

Anytime you're up for a real match, let me know! ;)
We know what.
Therefore you should understand that we can reciprocate the same sentiments.

We are in good company as well.

When you want a real match let us know as well.

Thing is you assume unrepentant folk.
That's beyond your paygade.
That's up to Jesus to judge and not you.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,115
14,770
113
Your post brought a thought to mind. Do works salvationists think that we who acknowledge we are saved by grace through faith are against good works?
They all think that in some form or fashion and for sure we can live like the "debil" and do as we please......accused Paul of the same crap....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,930
2,808
113
Whoa bro what you saying to me here?

I never said I heard a pastor teach a license to so.

So your blackening?
I assume that you are referring to me.

NO, I was not referring to you, I specified by "anyone".

Was not directing it to you, it just seemed like a opportune time to share how PEOPLE who LUMP all of us LORDSHIP SALVATIONISTS, with the minority that teach "A License to Sin", make me feel. Sorry you misunderstood. As far as I am concerned those who teach A Licence to SIN, are NOT TRUE LORDSHIP SALVATIONIST, because we are those who Willingly Submit to HIS LORDSHIP, purely out of LOVE FOR HIM.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
917
903
93
Once saved, always saved is not preaching a "license to sin." Preaching "works" to attain and to keep salvation is against the Truth. One cannot EVER undo what the Creator has done through the Blood of His Only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the Savior of the World.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
486
83
Man's opinion means very little to me.
The Lord has confirmed what He has given to me to preach, and that's all I need.
As Jesus, the Prophets and Apostles had to deal with such self-centered, unrepentant folk as well, I know I am in good company. :)

Anytime you're up for a real match, let me know! ;)
Umm, real match? You cannot match the scripture of truth.
 

Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
925
140
43
So this won't allow a baby or carnal Christians. It makes a false assurance, hence, to 'surrender hourly' and why is it necessary? this according to you is to maintain salvation.
Christ is formed in our hearts by Faith, that's pisteuo when applied.
That's according to the NT writers.

I said daily surrender, hourly if need be. Some days are harder than others.