Not By Works

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Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
925
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43
Maybe I should start a thread to warn people of this false doctrine.

Believing is a work that disqualifies Grace. The hidden works based salvation.
 

limmuwd

Active member
Oct 12, 2019
177
60
28
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Kingdom of God
to-him-who-overcomes.com
Do you believe in salvation by doing good works? Do you believe salvation is something to be earned verses a gift of God?
Hello Cherie, I appreciate the question. Been getting a lot of heat on here, but very few fervent dicsiples who are willing to discuss the things of God's Kingdom in a mature manner, where we can glean from each other.

This is a much greater topic than can be properly expressed in an online forum. Personally, I've often engaged with the saints for 3- 4 hours (even up to 8 hours!) in fellowship, prayer and study of the Word.

But let me briefly share this...

No I do not believe "works" of the "Law" are required for salvation. To begin our Journey is a gift of God to those who "believe, repent, and are baptized." (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, among many others.)

What I do believe and have been teaching for years, and which is fully supported by the whole of Scripture, is that to receive the promises of God in Rev 2 & 3, we must prove ourselves by Obedience to God's commands given through Christ, and we must Repent, Walk Worthy, and Overcome.

We know from the Bible that God will not judge us by what we claim to believe, or by a statement of faith, in that Day.
The Scripture does tell us many times that Jesus is coming to "judge and reward" saint and sinner alike "according to our works" . (Psalm 62:12, Prov 24:12, Jer 17:10, Jer 32:19, Eze 33:20, Lam 3:64, Matt 16:27, John 5:28-29, Rom 2:6, Rom 14:12, 2 Cor 5:10, 1Pet 1:17, Rev 20:12, and Rev 22:12 for starters)

Though many have tried, these portions of God's Word cannot be explained away; nor can any verse negate what these passages proclaim. Understanding that "salvation" is not a one time event really helps us grasp a Truer vision of God's great plan and purpose for Creation. Been covering this at our church quite a bit recently - 1Corinthians 10 Bible Study

Peace & Blessings to you as you walk with Jesus,
Michael
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Hello Cherie, I appreciate the question. Been getting a lot of heat on here, but very few fervent dicsiples who are willing to discuss the things of God's Kingdom in a mature manner, where we can glean from each other.
Yes I was thinking the same thing, especially the part where people keep sidestepping the meaning of the word metanoia?

Care to offer a rebuttal?

meta=after; noeo=to think. Put the two together and the effect of meta was “after the fact” or “afterwards.”

The word means "after-mind" and signifies a change of mind: thinking one way, but then afterwards thinking another. It is the opposite of pronoia (pro-nous) which means before-mind: the mind or thinking you have before.

The word metanoia in no way means turning from sin in and of itself, unlike the word 'repentance" the word metanoia relies heavily on context.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,131
488
83
Hello Cherie, I appreciate the question. Been getting a lot of heat on here, but very few fervent dicsiples who are willing to discuss the things of God's Kingdom in a mature manner, where we can glean from each other.

This is a much greater topic than can be properly expressed in an online forum. Personally, I've often engaged with the saints for 3- 4 hours (even up to 8 hours!) in fellowship, prayer and study of the Word.

But let me briefly share this...

No I do not believe "works" of the "Law" are required for salvation. To begin our Journey is a gift of God to those who "believe, repent, and are baptized." (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, among many others.)

What I do believe and have been teaching for years, and which is fully supported by the whole of Scripture, is that to receive the promises of God in Rev 2 & 3, we must prove ourselves by Obedience to God's commands given through Christ, and we must Repent, Walk Worthy, and Overcome.

We know from the Bible that God will not judge us by what we claim to believe, or by a statement of faith, in that Day.
The Scripture does tell us many times that Jesus is coming to "judge and reward" saint and sinner alike "according to our works" . (Psalm 62:12, Prov 24:12, Jer 17:10, Jer 32:19, Eze 33:20, Lam 3:64, Matt 16:27, John 5:28-29, Rom 2:6, Rom 14:12, 2 Cor 5:10, 1Pet 1:17, Rev 20:12, and Rev 22:12 for starters)

Though many have tried, these portions of God's Word cannot be explained away; nor can any verse negate what these passages proclaim. Understanding that "salvation" is not a one time event really helps us grasp a Truer vision of God's great plan and purpose for Creation. Been covering this at our church quite a bit recently - 1Corinthians 10 Bible Study

Peace & Blessings to you as you walk with Jesus,
Michael

I believe that it cannot be called a gift if one has to "prove ourselves by Obedience".

Matthew 10:22 ( NKJV ) :
"And you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

The way I see this verse is that it is speaking of keeping one's faith and testimony of Jesus until the end. In other words, not denying one's faith in Jesus even under intense persecution. Peter did deny Jesus for a moment, but God's grace was still there for him and later on, Peter proclaimed Jesus even under great persecution and did not shrink back in fear of men.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,515
474
83
Not until you show a good grasp on what NT saving Faith, pisteuo is.
We are just discussing what the Greek writers are communicating with the use of the word pisteuo. Then restart an application,but your not able to accept the true definition.

You still think pisteuo means believe.
Why be afraid to talk about scriptures and yet you are only discussing what Vine's own definition which was publish only in 1940.
Here's what Tyndale says and which is so much for you to chew on now.
Old Testament Pentateuch
William Tyndale (1530)

Faythis the beleuinge of goddes promesses & a sure trust in the goodnesse and truth of god. Which faith iustifyeth Abraham gen. xv. and was the mother of all his good workes which he afterward did...
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,473
3,605
113
Here is what he believes ........that grace/the work of Jesus, is insufficient to save



Link (Extreme Caution)
There have been a lot of heretical, and even blasphemous people I’ve come across in my 6.5 years here at CC.
I think Michael, the author of that horrible link, has to be put right at the top.
There is so much incomprehensibly wrong I barely know where to begin.
But really, just the fact that this guy denies that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, is enough to stay the HELL (yep, I said it!) away from him.

Of course, he eats rebukes and corrections like candy, actually thinking they make him stronger, so aside from warning others about this wolf there is very little value in engaging him.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,515
474
83
[QUOTE="limmuwd, post: 4055116, member: 290008"

But let me briefly share this...

No I do not believe "works" of the "Law" are required for salvation. To begin our Journey is a gift of God to those who "believe, repent, and are baptized." (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, among many others.)

Michael[/QUOTE]

And you are now telling us some kind of different gospel falling into baptismal regeneration. Let me know if I am incorrect about this or I'll repent...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest

Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
925
140
43
Why be afraid to talk about scriptures and yet you are only discussing what Vine's own definition which was publish only in 1940.
Here's what Tyndale says and which is so much for you to chew on now.
Old Testament Pentateuch
William Tyndale (1530)

Faythis the beleuinge of goddes promesses & a sure trust in the goodnesse and truth of god. Which faith iustifyeth Abraham gen. xv. and was the mother of all his good workes which he afterward did...

Afraid? I've been taught at a Stanford University level, by a Stanford University prop, with the largest collection of Biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican for 33 years.

The first thing I was taught was about this mistranslation of pisteuo. That the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to translate Pisteuo like the Greek does. If you don't understand that, you have no chance at a correct understanding.

If you can't accept what NT pisteuo is, how are you going to accept harder truths. Your still an embryo. You have yet to be fertilized by Faith.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
There have been a lot of heretical, and even blasphemous people I’ve come across in my 6.5 years here at CC.
I think Michael, the author of that horrible link, has to be put right at the top.
There is so much incomprehensibly wrong I barely know where to begin.
But really, just the fact that this guy denies that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, is enough to stay the HELL (yep, I said it!) away from him.

Of course, he eats rebukes and corrections like candy, actually thinking they make him stronger, so aside from warning others about this wolf there is very little value in engaging him.
He is a self-appointed judge apparently?

“Let no man steal your crown” is addressed to a select few. These God (not man) has predestined to sit with Christ Jesus on His throne, ruling over and bringing Life to creation in the Kingdom. If one is ordained by God to this, the position must still be attained to: by repentance, obedience and yes, by works.
https://pressingintomaturity.blogspot.com/2019/01/where-do-i-belong.html
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
There have been a lot of heretical, and even blasphemous people I’ve come across in my 6.5 years here at CC.
I think Michael, the author of that horrible link, has to be put right at the top.
There is so much incomprehensibly wrong I barely know where to begin.
But really, just the fact that this guy denies that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, is enough to stay the HELL (yep, I said it!) away from him.

Of course, he eats rebukes and corrections like candy, actually thinking they make him stronger, so aside from warning others about this wolf there is very little value in engaging him.
He is looking for more followers..... yes I agree