Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,013
2,882
113
I empathize with you, bro. Back in my younger, stupider days, I drank an entire bottle of Southern Comfort WITHOUT chasers. Was sick as a dog most of the night, sitting outside puking. That cured me of drinking ever again.. lol

Oh my, you were not supposed to imitate my stupidest stunt the first year I was in the U.S. Air Force station in Turkey. Oh what a horrible experience. Got in a stupid drinking contest with my bottle was Southern Comfort. When the two bottles were gone, we decided to go to the Mid-Flick. I sat in the front row, closed my eyes until the movie started. Opened my eyes and everything on the screen was a BLURR. Ran out the EXIT door, still could not see, and had to crawl back to the barracks feeling the side walk, and spent most the rest of the night, hugging the commode in the barracks. WORST NIGHT OF MY LIFE.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,170
170
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Walk trough the valley
The Book of Luke chapter 8. (y)
Most people remain in the first Revelation of salvation they receive, few go on to perfection. Few learn obedience through suffering, and remain cough up with thwmaelves rather than cough up to God. Thought there is nothing they can do, but not thought that, "If you believe, all things are possible with God." Many have faith without obedience of Love and remain babes, babes are described in the bible as quarelsome and divided. A time of trouble such as never was is apointed for us to grow in Love "Faith works by Love."
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,254
2,405
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We would be stronger Christians if we were persecuted ?
Most definately. The reason is: Only the REAL Christians will identify as Christians where as now we got a situation where EVERYONE and their momma is a Christian, cause they were "born to it". The Joel Osteen crowd doesn't exist in China, or any other persecuted nation, because that crowd would fold instantly and join forces with the local evil oppressor, whoever it is at the time, Mao, Stalin, you name it.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
2,165
1,032
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www.christiancourier.com
Most definately. The reason is: Only the REAL Christians will identify as Christians where as now we got a situation where EVERYONE and their momma is a Christian, cause they were "born to it". The Joel Osteen crowd doesn't exist in China, or any other persecuted nation, because that crowd would fold instantly and join forces with the local evil oppressor, whoever it is at the time, Mao, Stalin, you name it.
I would disagree.

By the way, your member name, are you a beekeeper? Your name looks to be an anagram for, some hives.
Just curious. :)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
2,165
1,032
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www.christiancourier.com
"All that live godly shall sufer persecution" We would be petsecuted if we lived godly. Those who live after the flesh persecute those who Live after the Spirit.
We Christians in America may not be arrested for our faith now however, I would contend we are persecuted in ways.
And there are even tax exempt groups that are dedicated to the practice. Freedom From Religion Foundation, is one. Southern Poverty Law Center, another. ACLU will join with FFRF against the Christian(s).

And as we know now due to the LGBTQT community being a special privilege group, Christians who hold to scripture in those matters are certainly persecuted for that. Some who are in business and refuse to provide services to gay weddings, for example. They're harassed, receive death threats, and are even sued. All so as to make them concede to the will of the world that says, LGBTQ should be tolerated no matter what.
And if we disagree, now we are the bad people.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,170
170
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Walk trough the valley


Scriptures Warning Christians of Peril
A significant part of the today’s evangelical industry is devoted to giving assurance to people who are in bondage to various forms of sin that they do not need to fear for their souls. In other words, people desperately want to hear that they are safe, and there are plenty of people out there to cater to that market.

The ministry of Jesus to people caught in sin often contained the words,
“Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:11). Or,
“See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” (John 5:14).
The encounter with God’s grace not only brings undeserved forgiveness and acceptance with God. It also comes with a warning to “sin no more”. The reason for this is hidden in plain sight. If we keep on sinning after encountering the grace of Jesus Christ, there comes a time when “something worse” than being crippled and powerless.
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV)
Notice that this Scripture was not written to the world, but to Christians. It does not say, “If THEY [the people outside of Christ] keep on sinning …” but “If WE [the believers/Christians] deliberately keep on sinning AFTER receiving a knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume the enemies of God”.
In contrast to this plain teaching of Scripture, there is a veritable army of so-called “grace teachers” and so-called Bible teachers whose whole emphasis seems to be on the idea that because of the cross, God is now blind to your sin and He unconditionally guarantees you heaven regardless of how you live – just because you believe He does. For them, the gospel is that Jesus did it all so you don’t have to live righteously at all, and some go so far as to teach that only those who believe this way will be accepted by God. If you want to know if Jesus is really blind to the sin in the church, please read the words of Jesus to the churches in the Book of Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Folks, this all happened AFTER the cross.
There is a difference between believing that God requires a surrender of heart and life and a belief that you can “earn your way to heaven”. We can NEVER earn our way to heaven by any good works of faith or obedience. All we can do is cast ourselves on the mercy of God, and surrender to the Lord. We then need to follow Jesus through faith, love, prayer, obedience, the Word, and self-denial. Our acceptance with the Lord is because of the ongoing cleansing of His blood – but there are conditions for this, as the Bible reveals. See 1 John 1:7 for some of them.
Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Whatever is not of love is sin.
Prayerless living is sin.
All disobedience is sin.
Rejecting the Word of the Lord is sin.
Self-indulgence contrary to the leading of the Spirit to deny ourselves is sin.
We are not permitted by Jesus to keep on sinning.
He said, “Go and sin no more”.
It would not be fair to say that to one person if he did not mean it to apply to all who hear His Word.
Believing and Repenting
There is this idea that you can believe without repenting. In the gospels, repenting and believing are like two sides of the same coin.
You can only fully “believe in Jesus” without “turning from sin” if the “Jesus” you believe in does not say things like “Go and sin no more”.
But which Jesus is that? It could well be “another Jesus”, couldn’t it?
Repentance in Greek [metanoia] is a “change of mind” but it is more than changing your opinion on religious matters. It means turning to God, away from both self-dependence AND willful carnal sin. It means a 180 degree change of direction.
It is a change from unbelief to faith, from doubts to trust, from fear of doing God’s will to delight in doing God’s will.
Some try to redefine repentance to mean: “It is a change of mind from thinking God requires something of you to realizing that because of Jesus’ work God requires nothing from you”. That definition cannot be true in the light of what the apostle Paul said in the Bible. I will show that shortly.
The way of salvation as taught by Jesus in the gospels is something we should consider carefully. Some people teach that everything Jesus taught about salvation was out of date after the cross and resurrection. But these gospels recording the words of Jesus were written decades AFTER Jesus died and rose again. Not once do these gospel writers say, “Oh, and by the way, since Paul came along, we learned that none of Jesus’ commandments are bindings, and his warnings were all for someone else – not you”. That would be ridiculous, but this is essentially what many people are swallowing.
Warnings from the Apostle John
“If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie,"...
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.” (1 John 2:3)
“He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4)
“But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes” (1 John 2:11).
“If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in Him” (1 John 2:15).
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous” (1 John 3:7)
“He who sins is of the devil” (1 John 3:8)
Warnings from the Apostle Peter
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.​
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,387
15,186
113


Scriptures Warning Christians of Peril
A significant part of the today’s evangelical industry is devoted to giving assurance to people who are in bondage to various forms of sin that they do not need to fear for their souls. In other words, people desperately want to hear that they are safe, and there are plenty of people out there to cater to that market.

The ministry of Jesus to people caught in sin often contained the words,
“Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:11). Or,
“See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” (John 5:14).
The encounter with God’s grace not only brings undeserved forgiveness and acceptance with God. It also comes with a warning to “sin no more”. The reason for this is hidden in plain sight. If we keep on sinning after encountering the grace of Jesus Christ, there comes a time when “something worse” than being crippled and powerless.
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV)
Notice that this Scripture was not written to the world, but to Christians. It does not say, “If THEY [the people outside of Christ] keep on sinning …” but “If WE [the believers/Christians] deliberately keep on sinning AFTER receiving a knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume the enemies of God”.
In contrast to this plain teaching of Scripture, there is a veritable army of so-called “grace teachers” and so-called Bible teachers whose whole emphasis seems to be on the idea that because of the cross, God is now blind to your sin and He unconditionally guarantees you heaven regardless of how you live – just because you believe He does. For them, the gospel is that Jesus did it all so you don’t have to live righteously at all, and some go so far as to teach that only those who believe this way will be accepted by God. If you want to know if Jesus is really blind to the sin in the church, please read the words of Jesus to the churches in the Book of Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Folks, this all happened AFTER the cross.
There is a difference between believing that God requires a surrender of heart and life and a belief that you can “earn your way to heaven”. We can NEVER earn our way to heaven by any good works of faith or obedience. All we can do is cast ourselves on the mercy of God, and surrender to the Lord. We then need to follow Jesus through faith, love, prayer, obedience, the Word, and self-denial. Our acceptance with the Lord is because of the ongoing cleansing of His blood – but there are conditions for this, as the Bible reveals. See 1 John 1:7 for some of them.
Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Whatever is not of love is sin.
Prayerless living is sin.
All disobedience is sin.
Rejecting the Word of the Lord is sin.
Self-indulgence contrary to the leading of the Spirit to deny ourselves is sin.
We are not permitted by Jesus to keep on sinning.
He said, “Go and sin no more”.
It would not be fair to say that to one person if he did not mean it to apply to all who hear His Word.
Believing and Repenting
There is this idea that you can believe without repenting. In the gospels, repenting and believing are like two sides of the same coin.
You can only fully “believe in Jesus” without “turning from sin” if the “Jesus” you believe in does not say things like “Go and sin no more”.
But which Jesus is that? It could well be “another Jesus”, couldn’t it?
Repentance in Greek [metanoia] is a “change of mind” but it is more than changing your opinion on religious matters. It means turning to God, away from both self-dependence AND willful carnal sin. It means a 180 degree change of direction.
It is a change from unbelief to faith, from doubts to trust, from fear of doing God’s will to delight in doing God’s will.
Some try to redefine repentance to mean: “It is a change of mind from thinking God requires something of you to realizing that because of Jesus’ work God requires nothing from you”. That definition cannot be true in the light of what the apostle Paul said in the Bible. I will show that shortly.
The way of salvation as taught by Jesus in the gospels is something we should consider carefully. Some people teach that everything Jesus taught about salvation was out of date after the cross and resurrection. But these gospels recording the words of Jesus were written decades AFTER Jesus died and rose again. Not once do these gospel writers say, “Oh, and by the way, since Paul came along, we learned that none of Jesus’ commandments are bindings, and his warnings were all for someone else – not you”. That would be ridiculous, but this is essentially what many people are swallowing.
Warnings from the Apostle John
“If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie,"...
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.” (1 John 2:3)
“He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4)
“But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes” (1 John 2:11).
“If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in Him” (1 John 2:15).
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous” (1 John 3:7)
“He who sins is of the devil” (1 John 3:8)
Warnings from the Apostle Peter
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.​
Where sin abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE <-- written to believers

ALL SIN has been dealt with at the cross.....the problem ->> deceivers that place more emphasis upon sin while promoting bondage and ignoring or devaluing JESUS, HIS WORK, GRACE and the Fact that the debt of sin has been PAID IN FULL......
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
68,842
7,134
113
That is no way to disrespect a chinchilla! :LOL:

You know why Godzilla is so mad all the time?
His name is really, Steve.



I like the first Godzilla movie made by an American studio. Starring, Matthew Broderick.
Turned out Godzilla was a girl. :giggle:


This thread is now officially in the upper atmosphere of, off topic.

You got your animals mixed up. That's a squirrel, not a chinchilla.. lol
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
1,163
787
113
4:45 a.m. here in Vermont.
That's early. I also woke up at about 4am this morning (it is currently 6pm here) I had a dream that I was on the titanic and knew it was about to sink. I could see the ship slowly filling up with water and then I woke up. Have no idea what that means?
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,170
170
63
64
Walk trough the valley
Where sin abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE <-- written to believers

ALL SIN has been dealt with at the cross.....the problem ->> deceivers that place more emphasis upon sin while promoting bondage and ignoring or devaluing JESUS, HIS WORK, GRACE and the Fact that the debt of sin has been PAID IN FULL......
This is not about wether Jesus paid it all or not: we know He did. This is about, "Where your treadure is, there your heat will be also," and many other like things Jesus also said. "Strive to enter in at the straight gate, for I say to you that many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able." Do you know why they are umable to? You should know? I just mentioned, the verse before. Some of you think the bible cant be taken out of context, practically saying the bible dosent aply to you, and the part you believe, you distort and judge others like me who see difetently and put yourself under judgment of the dead works you speak against, while we go free, knowimg your quarelsome spirit is not of God; while you remain a babe who dosent want to grow up. Neither am I here trying to help, i know I cant. just leaving warnings here as I come across, to clear my conscience. This is happening all over America and has been for years. Now America is as Babilon the city of confusion, where languages are confused because people dont walk in Love, and the Lord is saying "Come out of her my people, that you be not partakers of her plagues." Do you think I woud dare say something so serious as jusgment coming on America like many prophets have, if I did not know it to be so.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,014
454
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HBG. Pa. USA
Where sin abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE <-- written to believers

ALL SIN has been dealt with at the cross.....the problem ->> deceivers that place more emphasis upon sin while promoting bondage and ignoring or devaluing JESUS, HIS WORK, GRACE and the Fact that the debt of sin has been PAID IN FULL......
If we are in WILlFUL Sin WE are promoting bondage and ignoring or devaluing JESUS, HIS WORK, GRACE and the Fact that the debt of sin has been PAID IN FULL
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,518
6,271
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53
Hebrews 10:26 (AMP) - For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. The present tense indicates this is their lifestyle, their habitual practice. It describes an abiding state of willful, deliberate sinning. Those who are born of God are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time (1 John 1:8-10), but sinning is not their willful, habitual, continual practice once they are born again. *1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,254
2,405
113
I would disagree.

By the way, your member name, are you a beekeeper? Your name looks to be an anagram for, some hives.
Just curious. :)
Well I can agree to disagree with you bro or sis! ITS ALL LOVE FROM MY END

I do love bees for making all that juicy honey for me, but im not a beekeeper. The name means Horseman in finnish. Its a derogatory term against gypsies that has been used against us since we work with horses but we TOOK IT and we RAN WITH IT and turned it into something positive.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
440
559
93
If we are in WILlFUL Sin WE are promoting bondage and ignoring or devaluing JESUS, HIS WORK, GRACE and the Fact that the debt of sin has been PAID IN FULL
What devalues this if Jesus the Christ is stating the work of his death and resurrection is insufficient to save completely and that there is something we add to His work.

That is the complete nullification, devaluing of the work of the cross!

The "willful" sin in Hebrews means exactly that.....there was no sacrifice under the old complex system for sins committed purposefully ..there was grace. The law was a schoolmaster.

The writer in Hebrews is stating if we reject the full work of Christ ( an act of grace) then no sacrifice for willful sin remains, because there was none under the old system......so in essence you have completely backwards.

And btw most all sins are willful.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
440
559
93


Scriptures Warning Christians of Peril
A significant part of the today’s evangelical industry is devoted to giving assurance to people who are in bondage to various forms of sin that they do not need to fear for their souls. In other words, people desperately want to hear that they are safe, and there are plenty of people out there to cater to that market.

The ministry of Jesus to people caught in sin often contained the words,
“Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:11). Or,
“See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” (John 5:14).
The encounter with God’s grace not only brings undeserved forgiveness and acceptance with God. It also comes with a warning to “sin no more”. The reason for this is hidden in plain sight. If we keep on sinning after encountering the grace of Jesus Christ, there comes a time when “something worse” than being crippled and powerless.
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV)
Notice that this Scripture was not written to the world, but to Christians. It does not say, “If THEY [the people outside of Christ] keep on sinning …” but “If WE [the believers/Christians] deliberately keep on sinning AFTER receiving a knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume the enemies of God”.
In contrast to this plain teaching of Scripture, there is a veritable army of so-called “grace teachers” and so-called Bible teachers whose whole emphasis seems to be on the idea that because of the cross, God is now blind to your sin and He unconditionally guarantees you heaven regardless of how you live – just because you believe He does. For them, the gospel is that Jesus did it all so you don’t have to live righteously at all, and some go so far as to teach that only those who believe this way will be accepted by God. If you want to know if Jesus is really blind to the sin in the church, please read the words of Jesus to the churches in the Book of Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Folks, this all happened AFTER the cross.
There is a difference between believing that God requires a surrender of heart and life and a belief that you can “earn your way to heaven”. We can NEVER earn our way to heaven by any good works of faith or obedience. All we can do is cast ourselves on the mercy of God, and surrender to the Lord. We then need to follow Jesus through faith, love, prayer, obedience, the Word, and self-denial. Our acceptance with the Lord is because of the ongoing cleansing of His blood – but there are conditions for this, as the Bible reveals. See 1 John 1:7 for some of them.
Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Whatever is not of love is sin.
Prayerless living is sin.
All disobedience is sin.
Rejecting the Word of the Lord is sin.
Self-indulgence contrary to the leading of the Spirit to deny ourselves is sin.
We are not permitted by Jesus to keep on sinning.
He said, “Go and sin no more”.
It would not be fair to say that to one person if he did not mean it to apply to all who hear His Word.
Believing and Repenting
There is this idea that you can believe without repenting. In the gospels, repenting and believing are like two sides of the same coin.
You can only fully “believe in Jesus” without “turning from sin” if the “Jesus” you believe in does not say things like “Go and sin no more”.
But which Jesus is that? It could well be “another Jesus”, couldn’t it?
Repentance in Greek [metanoia] is a “change of mind” but it is more than changing your opinion on religious matters. It means turning to God, away from both self-dependence AND willful carnal sin. It means a 180 degree change of direction.
It is a change from unbelief to faith, from doubts to trust, from fear of doing God’s will to delight in doing God’s will.
Some try to redefine repentance to mean: “It is a change of mind from thinking God requires something of you to realizing that because of Jesus’ work God requires nothing from you”. That definition cannot be true in the light of what the apostle Paul said in the Bible. I will show that shortly.
The way of salvation as taught by Jesus in the gospels is something we should consider carefully. Some people teach that everything Jesus taught about salvation was out of date after the cross and resurrection. But these gospels recording the words of Jesus were written decades AFTER Jesus died and rose again. Not once do these gospel writers say, “Oh, and by the way, since Paul came along, we learned that none of Jesus’ commandments are bindings, and his warnings were all for someone else – not you”. That would be ridiculous, but this is essentially what many people are swallowing.
Warnings from the Apostle John
“If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie,"...
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.” (1 John 2:3)
“He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4)
“But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes” (1 John 2:11).
“If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in Him” (1 John 2:15).
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous” (1 John 3:7)
“He who sins is of the devil” (1 John 3:8)
Warnings from the Apostle Peter
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.​
There is so much wrong with this I it would take a month to dismember it.

However I do find this statement very troubling.

For them, the gospel is that Jesus did it all so you don’t have to live righteously at all, and some go so far as to teach that only those who believe this way will be accepted by God.
Why is so hard to understand that only Jesus is righteous, and salvation is a free gift....received by faith apart from works!

Your righteous living cannot add to it. And yes God is concerned about sin in the believers life because He loves us and He knows sin is always destructive.

So please do not confuse salvation (a one time event, born from above) and growing in Christ.

And please provide the link. Thank you.