Not By Works

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lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Some people WANT to believe that they can lose their salvation, no longer be a Child of God, and be tossed into hell.

This is why the nagging question remains whether they trust in Christ, or themselves, to stay saved.
Some people just want to talk about other people.
Sanctified in this context simply means they were set apart. In this case they were sanctified because they were given the Truth.

The whole nation of Israel was "Sanctified" or set apart, for the Lord. But they are always referred to as Children of Israel, or children of Abraham, or God's PEOPLE. I can't find an instance where the people of Israel are referred to as the CHILDREN of God. THEY, had the Scriptures and Prophets and revelations, yet many did not believe, yet they were ALL collectively sanctified (set apart) by the Lord.

The passage in HEBREWS does NOT say they received the Truth. JESUS, is the Way the TRUTH, and the Life. It says they received the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth. Hence they bear greater responsibility as being HEBREW, being SANCTIFIED, having the Holy Scriptures, and the KNOWLEDGE of Jesus Christ!

They REJECTED Him and wanted to go back to sacrificing animals to atone for their sin. TRULY trampling the Blood Sacrifice of Christ and the Spirit of Grace.

NOWHERE, in that passage does it say they were born again believing Children of God. You are inferring that.
No the writer includes himself in the admonition and exhortation. Also it must be noted it is the blood of Christ that sanctifies, makes holy. There fore thery are saved. The context of the sanctified Starts in Heb. 9:13

How does He make us holy, set us apart?

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth (make Holy, set us apart) to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (who we are) from dead works (sin, acts that cause death) to serve the living God?

Heb 10:10 .....WE are sanctified (made Holy, set apart) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for US, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Heb 10:22 Let US draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having OUR hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Continueing in the same context speaking to those who have had their conscience purged, sanctified through the body of Christ once and for all, through the veil that is His flesh. Having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. Then the writer offers up the warning to the to not forske the assembling to gether but exhort and uplift as we see the day approaching. Verse 25.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:25,26)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,014
454
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HBG. Pa. USA
anyone can go through your posts and see what you say. I am not being dishonest about what you post.

and, yes, I cannot tell what you or anyone else thinks, but I can read what you say.

the points of the post are not as important as understanding what the poster seems to believe.

your overarching beliefs frame how you see Scripture.

when one has a belief system they overlay over Scripture, instead of letting Scripture BE the belief system, as you do, then I think those interacting with you should know that .
Those who have nothing to say talk about other people.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Agree.. it is the only way to see that salvation is secure, by reading correctly they are saved. :)
Sorry. Don’t see at all that it says they were saved. These people wanted to continue with the animal sacrifices to atone for sin.
It doesn’t say they were born again Children of God.
We also have to remember who this letter, and especially this chapter is addressed to.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Why would some want to believe they can lose their salvation?
Pride seems like the most common reason I've seen.

It is less about WANTING to lose salvation and more about NOT WANTING to be wrong about so many statements and arguments and years of study.

Not wanting to lay what they have been taught at God's feet and asking for the genuine truth.


Some denominations use the idea as a way to gain control over or money from a congregation.

Others are individuals who want thier hard work to set them appart from the person beside them.

I have heard this sort of person say "oh well if I can't lose my salvation I may as well sin all I want."

....this type of thinking is not from the spirit.... it is carnal and not what God teaches His children who no longer "want" the sin the enemy or our flesh will tempt us with.....
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Why would some want to believe they can lose their salvation?
Yes. That’s the million dollar question. There is so much Biblical proof that Gods Children remain His Children, you have to wonder why they believe their Heavenly Father would toss His Children in hell.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,014
454
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HBG. Pa. USA
Sorry. Don’t see at all that it says they were saved. These people wanted to continue with the animal sacrifices to atone for sin.
It doesn’t say they were born again Children of God..
Sure it does.
The writer includes himself in the admonition and exhortation. Also it must be noted it is the blood of Christ that sanctifies, makes holy. There fore they are saved or were saved if they sin willfuly. The context of the sanctified, the saved Starts in Heb. 9:13

How does He make us holy, set us apart?

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth (make Holy, set us apart) to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (who we are) from dead works (sin, acts that cause death) to serve the living God?

Heb 10:10 .....WE are sanctified (made Holy, set apart) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for US, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Heb 10:22 Let US draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having OUR hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Continueing in the same context speaking to those who have had their conscience purged, sanctified through the body of Christ once and for all, through the veil that is His flesh. Having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. Then the writer offers up the warning to the to not forske the assembling to gether but exhort and uplift as we see the day approaching. Verse 25.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:25,26)
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,745
3,896
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Sure it does.
The writer includes himself in the admonition and exhortation. Also it must be noted it is the blood of Christ that sanctifies, makes holy. There fore they are saved or were saved if they sin willfuly. The context of the sanctified, the saved Starts in Heb. 9:13

How does He make us holy, set us apart?

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth (make Holy, set us apart) to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (who we are) from dead works (sin, acts that cause death) to serve the living God?

Heb 10:10 .....WE are sanctified (made Holy, set apart) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for US, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Heb 10:22 Let US draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having OUR hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Continueing in the same context speaking to those who have had their conscience purged, sanctified through the body of Christ once and for all, through the veil that is His flesh. Having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. Then the writer offers up the warning to the to not forske the assembling to gether but exhort and uplift as we see the day approaching. Verse 25.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:25,26)
Yeah. I saw you post that the first 3 times. He is speaking collectively about his Hebrew brothers and sisters in the flesh. He does this in several other Books.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,014
454
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HBG. Pa. USA
No, you are not understanding the phrase.
Sin willfuly? It is the same as if one would fall away.


How does one fall away if they are not in a place to fall away from.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And while we are at it. How does one draw back (withdraw) unless they are in a place to draw back from?

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back (withdraw), my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,154
505
113
Yes. That’s the million dollar question. There is so much Biblical proof that Gods Children remain His Children, you have to wonder why they believe their Heavenly Father would toss His Children in hell.
That type of scenario does not make sense to me. Assurance of salvation is something I have struggled with a long time. And while I have read many verses from the bible that have been encouraging to me, doubt would often come. I believe this is the anxiety and probably the scrupulosity kicking in. Still God's grace is sufficient.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
444
570
93
Sin willfuly? It is the same as if one would fall away.


How does one fall away if they are not in a place to fall away from.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And while we are at it. How does one draw back (withdraw) unless they are in a place to draw back from?

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back (withdraw), my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Good questions, when I get back from work we shall discuss, scripture can stand the test, but do you have eyes to see?

If you want to see, like child, God will reveal so much to you, this I can promise.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,745
3,896
113
That type of scenario does not make sense to me. Assurance of salvation is something I have struggled with a long time. And while I have read many verses from the bible that have been encouraging to me, doubt would often come. I believe this is the anxiety and probably the scrupulosity kicking in. Still God's grace is sufficient.
Just so you know, I used to be on the other side of the issue, and even thought I may have lost it. I no longer doubt.He will never leave nor forsake me.
The enemy LOVES to have the Lord’s Children doubt. It makes them ineffective for the kingdom.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
420
819
93
That type of scenario does not make sense to me. Assurance of salvation is something I have struggled with a long time. And while I have read many verses from the bible that have been encouraging to me, doubt would often come. I believe this is the anxiety and probably the scrupulosity kicking in. Still God's grace is sufficient.
Hard to believe that such a righteous and Holy and just God..... would keep someone like me as a slave.... let alone adopt me as His son....

It makes me happy enough to be grateful forever though....

I bet you and I will be singing praises together about how He and only He is to thank for all of our blessings one day in heaven😁
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
420
819
93
Just so you know, I used to be on the other side of the issue, and even thought I may have lost it. I no longer doubt.He will never leave nor forsake me.
The enemy LOVES to have the Lord’s Children doubt. It makes them ineffective for the kingdom.
...amen brother
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,154
505
113
Hard to believe that such a righteous and Holy and just God..... would keep someone like me as a slave.... let alone adopt me as His son....

It makes me happy enough to be grateful forever though....

I bet you and I will be singing praises together about how He and only He is to thank for all of our blessings one day in heaven😁
What is amazing is how big God is and that he would come to save us in such a way as through the cross. If he goes that far to save sinners, surely he will keep his own people. I once saw this picture not long ago. It was of a lamb and the Shepherd rescuing it. The lamb was on the edge of a cliff and the Shepherd was there reaching out to save it. David also is a picture of how Jesus as the good Shepherd is. David before being king of Israel was a shepherd. When a lion and bear came after the lamb, David saved the lamb and slew the predators.

It is because God is holy and just and righteous that his word will never fail.