Not By Works

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star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
924
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we all who love our Heavenly Father are daily required to work out our own business to be right with Him -
yes, we can whine-bitch-feel sorry for ourselves-blame others - ETC. =
PHI. 2:12.
Wherefore, My beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in My presence only, but now much more in My absence,
'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

HELLO
We are not required to work out our business to be "right with Him." We are called to deliver the message of God's Word in both deed and words. We are His servants but we are made "right with God" through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ. Works is NOT what keeps us in His Will.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
924
924
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I don't come on here daily. But it seems every time I do come on, more new names. Oh well, everyone has to be somewhere.

I see some of the same ole same ole: Works to keep saved, works to obey, etc. It is Christ within us and His Holy Spirit which produces, not we ourselves.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,441
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star,
you should be old enough by now, by your picture', not to have the habit of READING YOUR OWN WORDS
into what someone is sharing, especially when they are (quoting the Holy Scriptures) (PHI. 2:12) - this Scripture
has to do with God's children's 'daily-walk'...
1JOHN 1:7. -
'But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.'
(these and other Scriptures don't 'negate the Work of the Cross', they simply tell us all how to LIVE,
'after we have accepted The Lord's Work on the Cross)...

when we see people going over-board to 'defend' themselves to the point of 'denying Scripture,
and (insert) (The Works Argument) that wasn't even in 'question'?
it always assures us that they have some 'work' to do in 'over-coming' something in their 'walk'...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,398
15,199
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Not so. The text in Hebrews 10:26 explicitly states, "after receiving the knowledge of the truth." Couple that with verse 29.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Why is it that NONE OF YOU put this in context? Rather sickening and reeks of a lack of scriptural diligence lightbulb
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
444
570
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Sorry. Don’t see at all that it says they were saved. These people wanted to continue with the animal sacrifices to atone for sin.
It doesn’t say they were born again Children of God.
We also have to remember who this letter, and especially this chapter is addressed to.
Which people?

The ones "once enlightened" ( Hebrews 6:4-5) of course they are saved.

I love how God uses the expressive style of this writer, so intense, albeit a very different style of expression.

The warning is to Jewish believers who have moved on from dead works and be enlightened (born again) that are trying to repeat the sacrifice of Jesus like under the old system,

(verse 6:6, as if that were even possible) ..........as though Jesus needed to be re-sacrificed, whereby putting the one sufficient, all time, perfect sacrifice to open shame.

That is what is impossible to be born again more than once ( renew them again unto repentance) do you see it ?

But those who have returned to the law, have not lost their salvation but they shall certainly face a punishment from God.

He is telling them the sacrifice of Jesus is perfect ... and by going back to the old system they have trodden under foot the Son of God.

Obviously God does not take a return to the law, (given the cost the Jesus paid), lightly.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering: (for He is faithful that promised) Hebrews 10:23

They were saved but they were messing up big time!!
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
444
570
93
Unless they sin willfuly.
Obviously you are far to entrenched your erroneous doctrine and you mind is not open.

So while I tend to be one those people thinking that there may be some glimmer of possibility ... there really isn't any hope, so sad that the true riches that Christ has to offer are forsaken.

As always with those who think salvation can be lost or the law is necessary to be good, is a lack of willingness to completely abandon oneself to His Grace!!

Same problem the Hebrews had. :(
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,013
2,883
113
For the History Buffs, the Movie "MIDWAY" is worth seeing, saw it this afternoon.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,013
2,883
113
I wish someone would make a movie about Iwo Jima in the same style of fighting as Saving Private Ryan.....

Have you seen the movie "Flags of Our Fathers", it is fairly recent movie about the Battle of Iwo Jima, here is a film clip:

http://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/search?chn=1000&cmpgn=&ctype=videos&doi=2018-02-10&geo=US&guid=A6E41AB0-643B-44E6-896F-33AC27AEFCA7&locale=en_US&o=APN11910&p2=^EQ^ch00us^client&page=1&prt=Default&q=Iwo+Jima+the+movie&tpr=sbt&trackId=client&ver=22.11.2.7&vidOrd=1&vidId=CkdfHvh_wtg

The washed out the colors to make it look old. It think that is a draw back.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,014
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HBG. Pa. USA
Not so. The text in Hebrews 10:26 explicitly states, "after receiving the knowledge of the truth." Couple that with verse 29.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Why is it that NONE OF YOU put this in context? Rather sickening and reeks of a lack of scriptural diligence lightbulb
Once again nothing to say but more yap about people. That is what is sickening.

Context? Line by line ain't good enough for ya? Prove the points of the post wrong.

Verse 26 says they received the knowledge of the truth. Couple that with The writer through the Holy Spirit including himself and all those in the congregation (brethren) in the admonition. He calls them brethren in verse 19 having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with the pure water.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised). And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
(Heb 10:19-25 KJV)


Receiving the knowledge of the truth implies they received Christ. He and they were saved having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 10:26 For if WE sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

As he continues in this admonition, verse 29 states they, those who sinned willfuly after receiving the knowledge of the truth. These people were sanctified (saved) having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water. But if they sinned willfuly they counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of Grace. Therefore there remains no sacrifice for their sins as verse 26 states. If there is no sacrifice for sin They are saved no longer.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Then the writer through the Holy Spirit continues to speak to these who are sanctified (saved) having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water and confirms that they also have been illuminated.

Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

Then in verse 35 the writer exhorts these illuminated that are sanctified (saved) having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water not to cast away their confidence (faith).

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

Then the writer admonishes them that they must not draw back from their confidence (faith). They can't draw back if they were not in a place to draw back from in the first.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Then exhorts them and himself by saying we are not them who draw back but them who believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,322
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Once again nothing to say but more yap about people. That is what is sickening.

Context? Line by line ain't good enough for ya? Prove the points of the post wrong.

Verse 26 says they received the knowledge of the truth. Couple that with The writer through the Holy Spirit including himself and all those in the congregation (brethren) in the admonition. He calls them brethren in verse 19 having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with the pure water.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised). And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
(Heb 10:19-25 KJV)


Receiving the knowledge of the truth implies they received Christ. He and they were saved having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 10:26 For if WE sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

As he continues in this admonition, verse 29 states they, those who sinned willfuly after receiving the knowledge of the truth. These people were sanctified (saved) having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water. But if they sinned willfuly they counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of Grace. Therefore there remains no sacrifice for their sins as verse 26 states. If there is no sacrifice for sin They are saved no longer.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Then the writer through the Holy Spirit continues to speak to these who are sanctified (saved) having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water and confirms that they also have been illuminated.

Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

Then in verse 35 the writer exhorts these illuminated that are sanctified (saved) having their hearts spinkled from an evil conscience and their bodies washed with pure water not to cast away their confidence (faith).

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

Then the writer admonishes them that they must not draw back from their confidence (faith). They can't draw back if they were not in a place to draw back from in the first.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Then exhorts them and himself by saying we are not them who draw back but them who believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
im too anxiety and restless right now to focus on reading or listening to anything long so i didnt even read this epistle of lightbearer but its probably the same keep the sabbath for salvation false doctrine as usual :sleep:
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
924
924
93
star,
you should be old enough by now, by your picture', not to have the habit of READING YOUR OWN WORDS
into what someone is sharing, especially when they are (quoting the Holy Scriptures) (PHI. 2:12) - this Scripture
has to do with God's children's 'daily-walk'...
1JOHN 1:7. -
'But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.'
(these and other Scriptures don't 'negate the Work of the Cross', they simply tell us all how to LIVE,
'after we have accepted The Lord's Work on the Cross)...

when we see people going over-board to 'defend' themselves to the point of 'denying Scripture,
and (insert) (The Works Argument) that wasn't even in 'question'?
it always assures us that they have some 'work' to do in 'over-coming' something in their 'walk'...

Although I'm thankful for living to be my age, (I'm a cancer survivor), what does that have to do with God's Truth? I do not have to use "scripture" every time for "what's in/on my heart. My "walk" is between me and my Lord. I have full confidence, however, that I could Never do enough "works" to get saved, stay saved. Have you looked at the title of this humongous thread? Do you understand what this great thread is all about?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
924
924
93
Do any of you ever wonder just "why" God loves us so much? I sometimes cannot grasp why He does. But I'm grateful He provided us a way to be His children.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
1,996
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Do any of you ever wonder just "why" God loves us so much? I sometimes cannot grasp why He does. But I'm grateful He provided us a way to be His children.
Yes star I do...
I was saying to God this morning in my quiet time with Him that I do not think I can ever stop thanking Him for saving me through His beloved Son our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ...

The deeper I get in the word with Him , the more I see what He has done for me , it catches my breath every time...
...xox...
 
Aug 17, 2019
226
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EXPOSE THEM


Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. Ephesians 5:11-12


1.Who are the antiChrists and deceivers referred to in 2John 1:7-11 and 1John 4:1-6?


2.What do they teach?


3.How can we recognize them



The antiChrists do not acknowledge that Christ came in the flesh.


It has caught my attention that some who claim to be Christians no longer include the word LIFE whenever they explain what the Gospel means to them. They would simply say that it is about the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Christ.


If the Gospel of our salvation is the word of Truth, would it still be the truth without the LIFE part?


It could be possible that the intention to disregard the LIFE part is to deceive the believers that it is only through faith in His DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION will one be saved and not by works because they are just filthy rags. These people would separate Faith from works as they do to the LIFE, separating it in disregard from the DEATH, BURIAL

and RESURRECTION whenever they

assert their doctrine of salvation through FAITH ALONE.


Obviously, the LIFE that Jesus lived on this earth is in total obedience and submission to what the FATHER commanded Him to do in accordance to His will and eternal purpose or plan.


During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. Hebrews 5:7-9


His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ephesians 3:10-11


And what's "through the church" referring to?


It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Ephesians 4:11-16


To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. 1 Peter 2:21


Does a Christian have to suffer and walk as Jesus did?


...Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6


It is God's command from the beginning that we must walk in love as Jesus did


And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.2 John 1:6


But what do these antiChrist teach? They say that once you are saved the moment you believed in Christ Jesus our Lord, you will always be saved and have already possessed eternal life.


This is a clear disregard for the command of God to walk in love wherein love is to walk in obedience to His commands.


Do they acknowledge Christ's coming in the flesh by saying that faith alone saves and once saved, always saved? That no one can keep God's laws and therefore calling those who obey and teach obedience to God, names to insult, mock, slander and judge them as if they have done such a grave offense to their God by doing so?


Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:7-11


These people have ran ahead by claiming to have already possessed eternal life which exempts them from facing judgment on the great day. They claim that their sins in the past, present and future have all been forgiven...no need to repent and ask for forgiveness anymore.


They have not continued in Christ's teachings. Theiir teachings are but rules taught by men and they have nullified the words of God such as His laws given to Moses for all Israel and they do many things like that.


The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. Luke 6:45


Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1 John 4:1-2



DO YOU TAKE AWAY THE" LIFE" (lived and walked in obedience to God's commands) FROM THE GOSPEL?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,745
3,896
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It has caught my attention that some who claim to be Christians no longer include the word LIFE whenever they explain what the Gospel means to them. They would simply say that it is about the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Christ.
Boy! You must have a HUGE problem with Paul then. Cause he give a very precise definition of what THE Gospel unto Salvation is.
1 Corinthians 15:1-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Risen Christ, Faith’s Reality
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.