Not By Works

[lightbearer]

Since it is God working in us then the level and magnitude of said work is not to be criticized, maligned or condemned, for it is all the work of God.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And yet you can't answer the post. Maybe spend less time talking about people and more time in the Word.

Your post has been answered so many times since you have been here I lost Count, I have no desire to rehash past argument knowing it will come to the same result.

I do study the word, it’s how I can determine you have not rightly divided the word. You need to study the word, so you are not decieved and in turn do not deceive others. satan comes as an angel of light, the word is a logos, not to be cut up with verses we think support our belief, but taken as a whole to spread the gospel (good news) of mercy, peace and love through the grace of God.

try it, you may like it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No facts ...just an in ability to understand the scripture..... but then it always evident to me that those who believe salvation can be lost, earned, maintained, forsaken get very little correct.

Their pride keeps them from seeing true grace, and thus prevents them from understanding

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The key word is 'ultimately'.
If the illuminated person persists long enough in a willful rejection of Christ, God will ultimately make it so they can't believe, hardening them in the position they have chosen to take despite the truth they know to be true through the Holy Spirit.

Not so true with willful, but ignorant, unbelief. There's always hope for that person because there's always hope they will receive illumination and not be ignorant anymore and stop sinning as a result. But what can you give to the person who is illuminated but hardens his heart to what he has been shown?

Have you stopped sinning?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Illuminated means being shown by the Holy Spirit that something really is true. This goes beyond simply knowing about something. This is actually knowing something is true because the Holy Spirit told you it's true. Perhaps you remember a time when you knew about the gospel, and then later the time when you knew in your heart that what you had heard really was true.

See, anybody can know about the gospel. All you have to do is tell them about it. But only those illuminated by the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking into their heart can know it's really true. From there that illuminated person decides whether they will submit in repentance to what they now know to be true, or reject it outright. Repeatedly rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit will, ultimately, result in God removing the ability to know what they heard is the truth, leaving them with no further opportunity or possibility of coming to repentance.

Ephesians 4:18-19 NIV
"They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity"

Ok this May be true,

but I hope your not saying they are not saved because of sin, but because of unbelief as the apostle John says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In that scripture I read no evidence they had been illuminated?

In context. They are gentiles who walk in futility of their mind, their understanding was darkened, being alienated because of ignorance due to their blindness

so no, they were never illuminated. It is clear in context

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are ignorant of the truth, not because they never knew the truth, but because they hardened themselves against it, and as a result have lost all sensitivity to it.

Hebrews also talks about rejecting the truth after being illuminated, and it's severe consequence, here:

Hebrews 6:4-5
"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance."

they never had truth, see roman 1, they became blind because they rejected,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.

You're going off the topic of this thread:

Justification is a free gift given to us when we believe the illuminating testimony of the Holy Spirit that eternal life comes through the Son of God, not earned by performing righteous works of the law.

People who don't know this yet, because the Holy Spirit has not testified to them about it, sin willfully out of ignorance and can still receive mercy--like Paul did. But people who do know this, because the Holy Spirit has testified to them about, if they continue in their unrepentant state are sinning willfully in knowledge, not ignorance. That's a far different matter.

This is an important distinction in the matter of sinning, before and after salvation, that we must make. That's what me and another poster were talking about. Responsibility in regard to sin is based on how much you know and are therefore responsible for.

it Seems your focused on sin, not the redeemer.

paul was shown mercy because as Saul he repented.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning/evening all...
Gods promises are beautiful , read this reminder from our LORD Jesus Christ , and may your hearts be filled with joy...

Morning sis!

 

[Judges1318]

Have you stopped sinning?

I have stopped sinning according to how John means that in this passage.

1 John 3:6-10 KJV
"6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. "

And when I sin I do this.

1 John 2:9-10 KJV
"9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Kind of off topic. Let's be careful.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have stopped sinning according to how John means that in this passage.

1 John 3:6-10 KJV
"6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. "

And when I sin I do this.

1 John 2:9-10 KJV
"9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Kind of off topic. Let's be careful.

John also,said if we say we have no sin we are deceived

kind of dangerous to admit one has stopped sinning, It tends to lead to phariseeism

your passage in first John means we no longer live as the world or unbeliever lives, not that we do no longer sin.

 

[Melach]

A machinist by trade....parts for jets, missiles, at one time space shuttle etc.....

ive done metal work too and that doesnt pay that much here. now we know why trump said america is the best.

 

[Judges1318]

Ok this May be true,

but I hope your not saying they are not saved because of sin, but because of unbelief as the apostle John says.

The giving over to sensuality is the symptom. The hardening of the heart in unbelief and loss of all sensitivity to the Spirit is the cause.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The giving over to sensuality is the symptom. The hardening of the heart in unbelief and loss of all sensitivity to the Spirit is the cause.

the cause is unbelief, Rom 1 is quite clear who they are. They hardened their own heart because of their love for sin.

He who believes is saved. He who does not believe has never seen God.

its WHY they continue to live in sin. Because they have never seen God.

You can teach a dog a new trick, but they will always return to their vomit.

 

[Judges1318]

they never had truth, see roman 1, they became blind because they rejected,

We don't know if they were or not. It doesn't say. The Hebrews 6 passage, meanwhile, does say those people were illuminated.

 

[Rosemaryx]

The giving over to sensuality is the symptom. The hardening of the heart in unbelief and loss of all sensitivity to the Spirit is the cause.

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Thank God and let us praise Him for our new hearts of flesh that beat towards Him...
...xox...

 

[Judges1318]

John also,said if we say we have no sin we are deceived

He did say that. And he also said born again people don't sin.

kind of dangerous to admit one has stopped sinning, It tends to lead to phariseeism

Not if we admit we have stopped sinning the way John means that in that passage.

your passage in first John means we no longer live as the world or unbeliever lives, not that we do no longer sin.

That is exactly what it means.
I no longer sin because I am born again, yet I still sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We don't know if they were or not. It doesn't say. The Hebrews 6 passage, meanwhile, does say those people were illuminated.

It does say. And we do know..

Maybe you do not, but it is quite clear who they are.. The world!

The world has never seen (Known) God scripture says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He did say that. And he also said born again people don't sin.

No, In the greek, He said they do not LIVE or HABITUALLY sin.

Again, Study. John did not contradict himself.

Not if we admit we have stopped sinning the way John means that in that passage.

John never said we stopped. He said we do not LIVE in sin.

A pharisee thinks he is not like the sinner, even paul called himself a sinner,

That is exactly what it means.
I no longer sin because I am born again, yet I still sin.

you do not understand the passage at all, it does not say you have ceased from sin

 

[blue_ladybug]