Not By Works
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You see, I used to go to a Lutheran Church before I was SAVED, that NEVER, EVER taught Born Again, in any service. In that situation, you will have the majority of the Congregation are Just Followers of Jesus, without Actually BEING Born Again, and What did Jesus say about being Born Again:
John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
{That Born of Water is a reference to the breaking of water at Natural Child Birth. How do I know, look at the very next verse.]
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
So what is being born of the Holy Spirit ? ? ? It happens when you FIRST Genuinely BELIEVE, after Mournfully Confessing (Meaning it with all your being), and that Lutheran Church used to say, "That's Works Righteousness." NOT IT ALL, that kind of Mournfully Confessing IS ACTUALLY A WORK OF CONVICTION from the Holy Spirit. When it happened to me, the Holy Spirit was Convicting me of All my Sinful lifestyle, AND it came in WAVE, after WAVE, after WAVE, of extreme GUILT for my whole Lifestyle. Way beyond the normal conviction of a guilt complex. I wept and cried for hours, feeling the weight of my sins, as I begged HIM for Forgiveness. Somewhere during that Conviction of the Holy Spirit, HE gave me a complete Surrender Prayer. I Prayed, "Lord GOD, Please Forgive me, Please Forgive me. If you have a purpose for my life, you will have to come into it and run my life. Because I am making a total mess of it." The moment I prayed that prayer, I KNEW IT WAS A COMPLETE SURRENDER TO HIM, and I knew it was because I LOVED HIM, and I was ashamed that I had offended HIM SO MUCH, with my SIN. I guess I thought I offended HIM so much that maybe He would not forgive me. Therefore, I think I told you about the Dream or Vision, were I was at the foot of the Cross on my knees, begging Him forgiveness, and HIS blood fell on forearms, and it FELT WARM! That is where the Dream or Vision Ended, but I was absolutely Convinced HE had Forgiven all my SINS.
I have thought of that experience, many times sense; and the VERSES that SPOKE TO ME LOUD AND CLEAR TO ME, when I discovered them, was these VERSES, because it is exactly what I did during that PRAYER in the Dream of Vision:
Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [NOT SIMPLY PROFESS IT.] with your mouth Jesus as Lord [Which means MASTER, and I was Surrendering complete control of my LIFE out of LOVE FOR HIM.], and believe in your heart [It was definitely in my heart, NOT IN MY HEAD, and I had never Felt that part of myself prior to that.] that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Yes, sometimes those VERSES can still bring TEARS TO MY EYES, because I can still remember when those verses First Touched My Heart, nearly 41 years ago.
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All of which is true for the faithful, but not for the backslider. You only see one side of the coin while I see both sides. I have posted about backsliders before. You ignore those scriptures, so perhaps you will take these scriptures to heart.
2 Peter 1 Warning about failing
(10) So then, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election certain, for if you keep on doing this you will never fail.
(11) For in this way you will be generously granted entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah.
(12) Therefore, I intend to keep on reminding you about these things, even though you already know them and are firmly established in the truth that you now have.
Heb 6 Lost salvation
(4) For it is impossible to keep on restoring to repentance time and again people who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have become partners with the Holy Spirit,
(5) who have tasted the goodness of God's word and the powers of the coming age,
(6) and who have fallen away, as long as they continue to crucify the Son of God to their own detriment by exposing him to public ridicule.
Joh 15 Believers cast into the fire
(1) Jesus said to his disciples: I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
(2) He cuts away every branch of mine that doesn't produce fruit. But he trims clean every branch that does produce fruit, so that it will produce even more fruit.
(3) You are already clean because of what I have said to you.
(4) Stay joined to me, and I will stay joined to you. Just as a branch cannot produce fruit unless it stays joined to the vine, you cannot produce fruit unless you stay joined to me.
(5) I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I stay joined to you, then you will produce lots of fruit. But you cannot do anything without me.
(6) If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire.
Rom 11 Keep trusting or you will be cut off
(17) You Gentiles are like branches of a wild olive tree that were made to be part of a cultivated olive tree. You have taken the place of some branches that were cut away from it. And because of this, you enjoy the blessings that come from being part of that cultivated tree.
(18) But don't think you are better than the branches that were cut away. Just remember that you are not supporting the roots of that tree. Its roots are supporting you.
(19) Maybe you think those branches were cut away, so that you could be put in their place.
(20) That's true enough. But they were cut away because they did not have faith, and you are where you are because you do have faith. So don't be proud, but be afraid.
(21) If God cut away those natural branches, couldn't he do the same to you?
(22) Now you see both how kind and how hard God can be. He was hard on those who fell, but he was kind to you. And he will keep on being kind to you, if you keep on trusting in his kindness. Otherwise, you will be cut away too.
Mat 24 Warning about loosing faith
(13) But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will be saved.
Rev 2 Salvation is conditional on remaining faithful to the end
(10) Don't worry about what you will suffer. The devil will throw some of you into jail, and you will be tested and made to suffer for ten days. But if you are faithful until you die, I will reward you with a glorious life.
1Co 9 Paul worries about being castaway
(27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
2 Peter 1 Warning about failing
(10) So then, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election certain, for if you keep on doing this you will never fail.
(11) For in this way you will be generously granted entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah.
(12) Therefore, I intend to keep on reminding you about these things, even though you already know them and are firmly established in the truth that you now have.
Heb 6 Lost salvation
(4) For it is impossible to keep on restoring to repentance time and again people who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have become partners with the Holy Spirit,
(5) who have tasted the goodness of God's word and the powers of the coming age,
(6) and who have fallen away, as long as they continue to crucify the Son of God to their own detriment by exposing him to public ridicule.
Joh 15 Believers cast into the fire
(1) Jesus said to his disciples: I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
(2) He cuts away every branch of mine that doesn't produce fruit. But he trims clean every branch that does produce fruit, so that it will produce even more fruit.
(3) You are already clean because of what I have said to you.
(4) Stay joined to me, and I will stay joined to you. Just as a branch cannot produce fruit unless it stays joined to the vine, you cannot produce fruit unless you stay joined to me.
(5) I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I stay joined to you, then you will produce lots of fruit. But you cannot do anything without me.
(6) If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire.
Rom 11 Keep trusting or you will be cut off
(17) You Gentiles are like branches of a wild olive tree that were made to be part of a cultivated olive tree. You have taken the place of some branches that were cut away from it. And because of this, you enjoy the blessings that come from being part of that cultivated tree.
(18) But don't think you are better than the branches that were cut away. Just remember that you are not supporting the roots of that tree. Its roots are supporting you.
(19) Maybe you think those branches were cut away, so that you could be put in their place.
(20) That's true enough. But they were cut away because they did not have faith, and you are where you are because you do have faith. So don't be proud, but be afraid.
(21) If God cut away those natural branches, couldn't he do the same to you?
(22) Now you see both how kind and how hard God can be. He was hard on those who fell, but he was kind to you. And he will keep on being kind to you, if you keep on trusting in his kindness. Otherwise, you will be cut away too.
Mat 24 Warning about loosing faith
(13) But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will be saved.
Rev 2 Salvation is conditional on remaining faithful to the end
(10) Don't worry about what you will suffer. The devil will throw some of you into jail, and you will be tested and made to suffer for ten days. But if you are faithful until you die, I will reward you with a glorious life.
1Co 9 Paul worries about being castaway
(27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
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You have FORGOTTEN ONLY ONE MAJOR FLAW in your THEORY. GOD IS ALL KNOWING! THEREFORE HE KNEW WHO WOULD FALL AWAY and THEREFORE THEY WERE NEVER SAVED. AND HE KNOWS WHO ARE HIS, and THEREFORE THEY ARE SAVED. HE KNEW THAT BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
Oh how you like to LIMIT GOD's ALL KNOWING POWER. SHAME ON YOU. AND LIMIT HIS SEALING POWER. SHAME ON YOU.
The VAST MAJORITY on THIS SITE are OSAS BELIEVERS, so why to you stay here, are you addicted to ARGUING ? ? ?
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Revelation 17:8 (NRSV)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
Revelation 20:15 (NRSV)
15 and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
Ephesians 1:13 (HCSB)
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 4:30 (HCSB)
30 And don’t grieve God’s Holy Spirit. You were sealed by Him for the day of redemption.
You have earned a one way TICKET to theTwilight Zone, I mean my IGNORE LIST.
Everyone else, I would advise, you also put PS on your IGNORE LIST to.
I am reminded of those poor people who were burnt at the stake. They were falsely judged by those who themselves were in error, not having the whole gospel, but only preaching part of it. In these last days we need to have the whole gospel and not just that which suits peoples personal bias. Below is the other side of the coin. Only the cults ignore scripture that conflicts with their teaching. We need to know these things, so we remain firm in the faith and are not carried away.
2Pe 3:15-17 ERV
(15) Remember that we are saved because our Lord is patient. Our dear brother Paul told you that same thing when he wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him.
(16) That's what he says in all his letters when he writes about these things. There are parts of his letters that are hard to understand, and some people give a wrong meaning to them. These people are ignorant and weak in faith. They also give wrong meanings to the other Scriptures. But they are destroying themselves by doing that.
(17) Dear friends, you already know about this. So be careful. Don't let these evil people lead you away by the wrong they do. Be careful that you do not fall from your strong faith.
1 Timothy 4:1 "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 1:19 Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
Hbr 6:4 - "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
2Pe 3:15-17 ERV
(15) Remember that we are saved because our Lord is patient. Our dear brother Paul told you that same thing when he wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him.
(16) That's what he says in all his letters when he writes about these things. There are parts of his letters that are hard to understand, and some people give a wrong meaning to them. These people are ignorant and weak in faith. They also give wrong meanings to the other Scriptures. But they are destroying themselves by doing that.
(17) Dear friends, you already know about this. So be careful. Don't let these evil people lead you away by the wrong they do. Be careful that you do not fall from your strong faith.
1 Timothy 4:1 "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 1:19 Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
Hbr 6:4 - "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
It looks like you're defining 'elect' as a person God purposely chooses ahead of time to be created a believer, as opposed to those who are purposely chosen ahead of time to be created an unbeliever. If you define it that way then 1) this person is saved no matter what you see on the outside, ever, or 2) he can't fall away from what he was purposely created to be, a believer, or 3) even if he falls away he'll come back to faith, because he has to--he was created a believer.
But if you define 'elect' as those whom God chooses on the basis of faith then, yes, this person was chosen by God, because they had faith. But what matters is if he retains faith in Christ or not and remains a part of the group of people God has chosen to bestow his blessings on--that group being the people who believe in Him. Faith is the basis upon which a person is chosen (elected) to be included in the race and nation and household of people who live in His blessings. You can't be chosen/elected to that blessing if you don't have faith, or have stopped having faith in God.
But if you define 'elect' as those whom God chooses on the basis of faith then, yes, this person was chosen by God, because they had faith. But what matters is if he retains faith in Christ or not and remains a part of the group of people God has chosen to bestow his blessings on--that group being the people who believe in Him. Faith is the basis upon which a person is chosen (elected) to be included in the race and nation and household of people who live in His blessings. You can't be chosen/elected to that blessing if you don't have faith, or have stopped having faith in God.
I have commonly heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it "unequivocally" teaches a really "saved" person truly "lost their salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is IF (verse 6). According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement, "IF a Christian were to fall away." The point being made is that it would be impossible if a Christian fell away to renew them again. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage then presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can permanently fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion that they would crucify again for themselves the Son of God. In Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, but the wicked shall fall by calamity. Impossible to be renewed does not equate to rising again.
In regards to the never truly saved view, the words, once enlightened - which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.
In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive..
Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God, yet have simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these positive factors may be genuine Christians, yet these factors alone are not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of the Christian life (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification, adoption etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet some draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth and do not believe to the saving of the soul, as we see in (Hebrews 10:26-39)
These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responded to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or have "received the Spirit's pledge which is the guarantee of future inheritance." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).
Those in Matthew 7:22-23 prophesied, cast out demons, performed works in Jesus' name, but were not saved. Jesus NEVER knew them and referred to them as "workers of iniquity" (v. 23). Such people certainly would have experienced what we read in Hebrews 6:4-6, yet were not genuine believers. It's not hard to find those types of people in Matthew 7:22-23 (which even sounds descriptive of word of faith teachers) on TBN.
In regards to fall away, in Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were not truly born again. (1 John 2:19)
In regards to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (self moral reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief/faith”, so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence for your argument.
In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.
*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.
It's generally stated by those who believe that salvation can be lost that it can be regained again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Think about it.
In regards to the never truly saved view, the words, once enlightened - which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.
In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive..
Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God, yet have simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these positive factors may be genuine Christians, yet these factors alone are not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of the Christian life (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification, adoption etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet some draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth and do not believe to the saving of the soul, as we see in (Hebrews 10:26-39)
These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responded to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or have "received the Spirit's pledge which is the guarantee of future inheritance." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).
Those in Matthew 7:22-23 prophesied, cast out demons, performed works in Jesus' name, but were not saved. Jesus NEVER knew them and referred to them as "workers of iniquity" (v. 23). Such people certainly would have experienced what we read in Hebrews 6:4-6, yet were not genuine believers. It's not hard to find those types of people in Matthew 7:22-23 (which even sounds descriptive of word of faith teachers) on TBN.
In regards to fall away, in Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were not truly born again. (1 John 2:19)
In regards to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (self moral reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief/faith”, so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence for your argument.
In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.
*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.
It's generally stated by those who believe that salvation can be lost that it can be regained again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Think about it.
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E
Was it not you who complained about someone’s remarks earlier?
your right though,I am not one of YOU!
i repented
i called out for gods mercy because I knew my situation
i trust him daily to sanctify me, chasten me when I am out of line, and lead me in the paths of righteousness
and I trust him to keep his promise
I am not one of you, and have no desire to be one of you, eternity is far to long to chance it based on my works. I trust gods work.
your right though,I am not one of YOU!
i repented
i called out for gods mercy because I knew my situation
i trust him daily to sanctify me, chasten me when I am out of line, and lead me in the paths of righteousness
and I trust him to keep his promise
I am not one of you, and have no desire to be one of you, eternity is far to long to chance it based on my works. I trust gods work.
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