Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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There is love in condemnation, it's a breeding ground for fear.
Sorry just to clarify I meant to say There is no love in condemnation.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Wow. You seem to be one tough cookie to go through that for 15 years. Amen. :)
Thats why I am so passionate about not writing people off.

Believers can go missing in action like I did.

I had people write me off yet no one came alongside during this time and basically I was too frightened to ask for help.

We have no idea what's going on behind closed doors in a persons house and heart.

The only person who knew what was going on was my wife, she saw me cry myself to sleep most nights, waking up in cold sweat.

At times she used to have to wake me cause I was having nightmares that I couldn't wake up from them.

We should never write people off. We should be spiritual doctors and nurses.
Nurisng our wounded and not shooting them
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I pray that story makes someone stronger in their faith. To endure the barrage of lies that come against the brethren (sometimes from the brethren). That we can come out of the depths of despair and that God will eventually reveal the truth to us. Thank you for sharing that story Bill. Peace be with you man, always.
Thanks and so do I.

I was being a Jacob, hanging on
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Thats why I am so passionate about not writing people off.

Believers can go missing in action like I did.

I had people write me off yet no one came alongside during this time and basically I was too frightened to ask for help.

We have no idea what's going on behind closed doors in a persons house and heart.

The only person who knew what was going on was my wife, she saw me cry myself to sleep most nights, waking up in cold sweat.

At times she used to have to wake me cause I was having nightmares that I couldn't wake up from them.

We should never write people off. We should be spiritual doctors and nurses.
Nurisng our wounded and not shooting them
Yep for sure......thank God for the one's who will pray, hope, unconditionally love and see the prospect of a still glowing ember of faith that just needs to be fanned........
 
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Teaching Grace only misleads who? And teaching Grace only misleads what?

What is misleading about teaching that we are saved by the Sacrificial death of God in the flesh, and subsequent resurrection of Jesus Christ?

THAT IS THE GOSPEL!

Now if your'e saying that AFTER accepting the Gospel, and AFTER we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we should encourage one another on to good works, and teach that maturing in Christ, is our calling, then I agree with that.

But NONE of those works have ANYTHING to do with be saved.
Amen.....is as simple as a, b and c.......

Saved by faith and only faith<----this produces results (works and fruit) which is a by product of, not the source of.......

saved UNTO works

NOT

saved BY works

faith plus works FOR or TO KEEP salvation is a lie from the pits of hell.......
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
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Yep for sure......thank God for the one's who will pray, hope, unconditionally love and see the prospect of a still glowing ember of faith that just needs to be fanned........
Amen to that.

Funny you should say that.

Someone said to my wife "I was praying and I started to pray for Bill, I had a picture of a coal fire but it wasn't burning, there was no fire but as I looked closer I saw a little flame at the bottom of the grate, in fact it wasn't a flame but a small burning ember"

She said to wife "I felt God wants to reassure you and comfort you, the fire hasn't gone out and when the time is right God will fan it into flames and when he does all that coal on top, the stuff weighing him down will be burnt up"

That was a precious lady friend of my wife who consistently prayed for me.

Isnt God good?

Thank you Jesus you are faithful even when we are not.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Amen to that.

Funny you should say that.

Someone said to my wife "I was praying and I started to pray for Bill, I had a picture of a coal fire but it wasn't burning, there was no fire but as I looked closer I saw a little flame at the bottom of the grate, in fact it wasn't a flame but a small burning ember"

She said to wife "I felt God wants to reassure you and comfort you, the fire hasn't gone out and when the time is right God will fan it into flames and when he does all that coal on top, the stuff weighing him down will be burnt up"

That was a precious lady friend of my wife who consistently prayed for me.

Isnt God good?

Thank you Jesus you are faithful even when we are not.
AMEN....that is because of the truth of what was said.......the LORD will never leave us or forsake us, HE will finish what he started and he is the beginner and finisher of our faith........

No matter how far a child may fall the coal is still there glowing and has the ability to be fanned back to flame......a son by birth will always be a son by birth....and exactly why the dogma that one can lose salvation is as heretical and false as can be...it states that JESUS is weak, cannot complete what he started and the faith he began in us is distinguishable.....

My Jesus is GOD and His word is TRUE...he is ALL powerful, ALL knowing and EVER present......he will HONOR HIS WORD toward ALL......
 
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So how much is MUCH FRUIT?
Are you satisfied each day that you have produced enough, or do you live in fear of Hell because maybe you did not each ?
How is a person to know?
MUCH is a very vague amount.
Much to you may be very different than much to me.
Surly the Scripture is more definite in what God expects.

AMEN......even 1 piece over a whole lifetime of a tree will identify what type of tree it is....Jesus said a cup up cold water in his name would not go unnoticed and or unrewarded......so.........the workers for and those who teach you must do something to keep it are like the lawyers of Jesus' day......they lay heavy burdens upon their cohorts that they themselves cannot even keep.....!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
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AMEN......even 1 piece over a whole lifetime of a tree will identify what type of tree it is....Jesus said a cup up cold water in his name would not go unnoticed and or unrewarded......so.........the workers for and those who teach you must do something to keep it are like the lawyers of Jesus' day......they lay heavy burdens upon their cohorts that they themselves cannot even keep.....!
What I find interesting and perplexing is that some Christians when they focus on works they focus on NOT doing.
This focus is on what we find in Corinthians and Galatians, what we call works of the flesh.
Their focus is to minimise this with disregard to the following.

Matthew 25:31-36
The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations
“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

It people want to go down the route of works saving us then they have to consider the whole package.

If people of this mindset concentrate on not doing that tends to be thier focus to the detrement of doing. Which to me is what Jesus is talking about above.

Rather than doing we should just be being.

When we fully realise who we are and what we are in Jesus and to God then we will realise we are his children warts and all.

When we just be who we are in Christ then we will start to do and not do as a natural consequence out of love for our Father.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What I find interesting and perplexing is that some Christians when they focus on works they focus on NOT doing.
This focus is on what we find in Corinthians and Galatians, what we call works of the flesh.
Their focus is to minimise this with disregard to the following.

Matthew 25:31-36
The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations
“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

It people want to go down the route of works saving us then they have to consider the whole package.

If people of this mindset concentrate on not doing that tends to be thier focus to the detrement of doing. Which to me is what Jesus is talking about above.

Rather than doing we should just be being.

When we fully realise who we are and what we are in Jesus and to God then we will realise we are his children warts and all.

When we just be who we are in Christ then we will start to do and not do as a natural consequence out of love for our Father.
AMEN.....Just have faith and live life.....salvation is secure, the empowerment guaranteed, the leadership and enlightenment promised....just live and let GOD........
 
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Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!
Amen brother.....one piece is sufficient to prove the tree and even then some trees produce bi-yearly some take years and even a cup of cold water is sufficient and will not go unnoticed or unrewarded......!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
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AMEN.....Just have faith and live life.....salvation is secure, the empowerment guaranteed, the leadership and enlightenment promised....just live and let GOD........
God wants our hearts.
He wants a relationship with us, one which is based on love and not fear.

Walk with us like he did with Adam & Eve.

A relationship based on love brings security and along with it what?
 
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God wants our hearts.
He wants a relationship with us, one which is based on love and not fear.

Walk with us like he did with Adam & Eve.

A relationship based on love brings security and along with it what?
I could list numerous words that fit the question....

Trust, fellowship, faithfulness. etc..........
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I could list numerous words that fit the question....

Trust, fellowship, faithfulness. etc..........
Maybe you could expand the numerous words.

Maybe others could do so as well.

One thing that really started to set me free was this

John 17:23
I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

God loves me as much as he loves Jesus.

That blew my mind and still does.
We can reverse that as well.

I would to say to anyone who is struggling and feels condemned and unlovable read the above. This was part of the prayer Jesus prayed over his kids. He prayed that just before his betrayal. He knew what was coming yet his focus was on Gods plan and on us.

When we truly get this it brings a totally different dimension in our walk and relationship with God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Maybe you could expand the numerous words.

Maybe others could do so as well.

One thing that really started to set me free was this

John 17:23
I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

God loves me as much as he loves Jesus.

That blew my mind and still does.
We can reverse that as well.

I would to say to anyone who is struggling and feels condemned and unlovable read the above. This was part of the prayer Jesus prayed over his kids. He prayed that just before his betrayal. He knew what was coming yet his focus was on Gods plan and on us.

When we truly get this it brings a totally different dimension in our walk and relationship with God.
One thing that has always astounded me....

The Heavenly Father unconditionally loves us in Christ.....

Most of the time our love is conditional.....we give it based upon what we receive and or take if you will.....and the astounding part....

It is not that we loved HIM, but that HE loved us and gave himself for us.........

While Peter was denying the Lord the Lord was still loving Peter

While Jesus, beaten beyond recognition and hanging on a cross naked, slowly suffocating, he Loved us unconditionally and make no mistake....WE ALL NAILED him to that cross

While the disciples were panicking in the boat tossed by the wind swept sea even though Jesus slept he was still loving them despite their LACK OF FAITH

While the Gentile Roman dogs (soldiers) stripped, beat and crowned JESUS in a mock ceremony he was still loving them

While the Pharisees in a sham trial and against their own law condemned him he was still loving them

and the biggie which brings tears to my eyes......

AS JESUS hung on the cross, giving up the Ghost and crying MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsaken me....he was still loving us......................

ANYONE who thinks they earn or keep salvation by their own deeds and works are lacking the ability to see!!!!!

YES INDEED...IT IS NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.......
 
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[video=youtube;BuS9_v07GCs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuS9_v07GCs[/video]

we are instructed to follow daily not once a blue moon... meaning we must perform works for our selves..
 
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Hey JIMBO....how you doing..........been wondering when you would be around again...........I am confused about something......are you married or just have a fiancé?
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Hey JIMBO....how you doing..........been wondering when you would be around again...........I am confused about something......are you married or just have a fiancé?
im not married why do you keep mocking with this for ?..


you know the church dont mean much no more there allowing gay marriage ?... its God who unites two people not you or any church..
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
One thing that has always astounded me....

The Heavenly Father unconditionally loves us in Christ.....

Most of the time our love is conditional.....we give it based upon what we receive and or take if you will.....and the astounding part....

It is not that we loved HIM, but that HE loved us and gave himself for us.........

While Peter was denying the Lord the Lord was still loving Peter

While Jesus, beaten beyond recognition and hanging on a cross naked, slowly suffocating, he Loved us unconditionally and make no mistake....WE ALL NAILED him to that cross

While the disciples were panicking in the boat tossed by the wind swept sea even though Jesus slept he was still loving them despite their LACK OF FAITH

While the Gentile Roman dogs (soldiers) stripped, beat and crowned JESUS in a mock ceremony he was still loving them

While the Pharisees in a sham trial and against their own law condemned him he was still loving them

and the biggie which brings tears to my eyes......

AS JESUS hung on the cross, giving up the Ghost and crying MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsaken me....he was still loving us......................

ANYONE who thinks they earn or keep salvation by their own deeds and works are lacking the ability to see!!!!!

YES INDEED...IT IS NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.......
Yes yes yes

Agape love.

Jesus asked Peter 3 times do you love me.
The first two times it was Peter do you Agape me, Peter respond with I phileo (brotherly love) you.

The 3rd time Jesus says do you Phileo me? Peter responds you know everything you know a phileo you.

To me it's seems to be that Jesus is trying to stretch Peter.

Tend my sheep and that goes beyond phileo to Agape.

The same Agape love that Jesus had for us and the same Agape love that eventually led Peter to tend his sheep and as a result nailed him to the cross.