Not By Works

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Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#120,361
Apr 27, 2017
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#120,361
Discern said:
So you don’t think the warning passages apply to the Elect? Correct me if I misunderstand you, because I would differ with you on this. I would say that the warning passages are the means by which God accomplishes the sanctification and keeping of His Elect

Do you agree?
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Assume there are 100 believers at a point in time. 80 of these are Elect. Nobody knows exactly who God's elect are. All we know at a point in time is that these 100 people are believers.

There are bible verses warning believers (all 100 of them).
The Elect (80) will heed these and live as overcomers. These 80 people are known BY GOD, and were Elected by Him alone unto Salvation.
The others (20) will fall away as they were never Elect.

On our pilgrims journey, all that we know today is that we believe in Christ and we are part of the 100. We FOR SURE need to heed all of the warnings in the bible to make our call and election sure.

2 Peter 1
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#120,362
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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#120,362
Chris1975 said:
This is the Bible Discussion Forum. Invariably there are different views as to scriptural truths. It is here that we debate them. It is a ringfenced part of the ChristianChat Forum. Therefore this is fair game for this forum. You may not like what you hear in return, because you may be forced to confront paradigms and walls that you have built around certain doctrines. But that's part of a healthy debate. I have nothing against you. If you wish to ignore me, it won't offend me. You are totally in control of your Ignore button. You have my blessing to use it if you wish to. I say again....No issues.
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Would you care to estimate how many have been BANNED from this Forum, for thinking ARGUMENTS are fair game for this forum.

We will not humor you by ARGUING. Go find a different SITE, if you want to Argue.

You have proven what you are by TRYING TO BADGER US into Arguing.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#120,363
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
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#120,363
Chris1975 said:
Assume there are 100 believers at a point in time. 80 of these are Elect. Nobody knows exactly who God's elect are. All we know at a point in time is that these 100 people are believers.

There are bible verses warning believers (all 100 of them).
The Elect (80) will heed these and live as overcomers. These 80 people are known BY GOD, and were Elected by Him alone unto Salvation.
The others (20) will fall away as they were never Elect.

On our pilgrims journey, all that we know today is that we believe in Christ and we are part of the 100. We FOR SURE need to heed all of the warnings in the bible to make our call and election sure.

2 Peter 1
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
The whole hypothesis fails at the first paragraph, for we not only dont know who are elect, we also can’t know for sure who are believers. We only know their profession. We cannot know for sure if anyone is saved, except ourselves.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#120,364
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
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#120,364
Chris1975 said:
Assume there are 100 believers at a point in time. 80 of these are Elect. Nobody knows exactly who God's elect are. All we know at a point in time is that these 100 people are believers.

There are bible verses warning believers (all 100 of them).
The Elect (80) will heed these and live as overcomers. These 80 people are known BY GOD, and were Elected by Him alone unto Salvation.
The others (20) will fall away as they were never Elect.

On our pilgrims journey, all that we know today is that we believe in Christ and we are part of the 100. We FOR SURE need to heed all of the warnings in the bible to make our call and election sure.

2 Peter 1
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
For sure we need to heed the warnings, not to graduate from believer to elect when we die, but because that is the means that God uses for our sanctification and preservation, as our new nature given by Him hears and hearkens to Him
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#120,365
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
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#120,365
VCO said:
Would you care to estimate how many have been BANNED from this Forum, for thinking ARGUMENTS are fair game for this forum.

We will not humor you by ARGUING. Go find a different SITE, if you want to Argue.

You have proven what you are by TRYING TO BADGER US into Arguing.
Click to expand...
what? the entire bible discussion forum is one big argument:giggle:
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#120,366
#120,366
Discern said:
For sure we need to heed the warnings, not to graduate from believer to elect when we die, but because that is the means that God uses for our sanctification and preservation, as our new nature given by Him hears and hearkens to Him
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Sometimes God gives you insight ..so you just know you share the same Spirit...do you think so....I do
 
D

Discern

Banned
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Dec 6, 2019
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#120,367
EleventhHour said:
Sometimes God gives you insight ..so you just know you share the same Spirit...do you think so....I do
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Yes, there is a supernatural bond between believers. But that discernment or sense is not infallible

We can be reasonably sure with some, but really only they and God know for sure. And some even deceive themselves
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#120,369
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
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#120,369
VCO said:
Would you care to estimate how many have been BANNED from this Forum, for thinking ARGUMENTS are fair game for this forum.

We will not humor you by ARGUING. Go find a different SITE, if you want to Argue.

You have proven what you are by TRYING TO BADGER US into Arguing.
Click to expand...
If you feel that a moderator is necessary, then feel free to send them a complaint. Let them judge as to whether I am being argumentative for the sake of it or if I am bringing valid biblical debate to the table. In other words, put it in their court. They have made competent decisions in the past, and I'm sure they will continue to do so.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#120,370
Dec 6, 2019
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691
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#120,370
Chris1975 said:
If you feel that a moderator is necessary, then feel free to send them a complaint. Let them judge as to whether I am being argumentative for the sake of it or if I am bringing valid biblical debate to the table. In other words, put it in their court. They have made competent decisions in the past, and I'm sure they will continue to do so.
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I haven’t read your posts to others, your posts to me were cordial enough. But 120,335 to VCO...but I see a lot of name calling and ad hominem from many. We might all want to tone down the invective
 
stillness

stillness

Senior Member
#120,371
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
#120,371
dcontroversal said:
Cool....and the bible teaches a dual usage of sanctification....positionally and eternally in Christ is 1st....the 2nd as you describe....an ongoing process subject to growth, maturity, transformation dia study and subject successes and or failures, but salvation, justification, positional salctification and the sealing by the H.S. are all eternally secure in Christ!
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I cant read what you write anymore, your disqualified. Are you just proclaiming youreself. Jesus is not yourself. If would meet you i would beat you up to expose that tou cant turn the other cheek and are teaching others to do the same. But thankfully will never meet you and there is still hope for us.

**Admin note** Threats of violence against another user will not be tolerated
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Discern

Banned
#120,372
Dec 6, 2019
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#120,372
stillness said:
I cant read what you write anymore, your disqualified. Are you just proclaiming youreself. Jesus is not yourself. If would meet you i would beat you up to expose that tou cant turn the other cheek and are teaching others to do the same. But thankfully will never meet you and there is still hope for us.
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What did he say that merited this response? There was nothing offensive in the post you replied to.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#120,373
Mar 28, 2019
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Discern said:
What did he say that merited this response? There was nothing offensive in the post you replied to.
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its probably some other post. its not controversal for no reason
stillness said:
I cant read what you write anymore, your disqualified. Are you just proclaiming youreself. Jesus is not yourself. If would meet you i would beat you up to expose that tou cant turn the other cheek and are teaching others to do the same. But thankfully will never meet you and there is still hope for us.
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you are 64 and dcon is a marine you wanna try that? :D
i personally believe dcon wouldnt do anything. just because he uses colorful language and cals people some name on internet doesnt mean he is lacking in self-control. marines are usually highly discipline.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#120,374
Apr 27, 2017
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#120,374
Discern said:
I haven’t read your posts to others, your posts to me were cordial enough. But 120,335 to VCO...but I see a lot of name calling and ad hominem from many. We might all want to tone down the invective
Click to expand...
Agreed. This was reached because all three parties have made statements which were proven by scripture not to be true. Then avoided the very clear examples provided. Its not a game of shoot and hide.
 
J

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
“A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
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"After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" - Galatians 3:3
"how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces" - Galatians 4:9
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#120,376
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#120,376
Melach said:
its probably some other post. its not controversal for no reason

you are 64 and dcon is a marine you wanna try that? :D
i personally believe dcon wouldnt do anything. just because he uses colorful language and cals people some name on internet doesnt mean he is lacking in self-control. marines are usually highly discipline.
Click to expand...
Why do you think controversial is in his name? I've been familiar with him for close to two years now. He loves to debate and means no harm.
 
D

Discern

Banned
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Dec 6, 2019
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Chris1975 said:
Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

verse 1- Christ has made those Paul is addressing free. They have liberty. They are told to stand fast in it. Established fact.
verse 1 - A Warning, not to be entangled AGAIN. Which means they were previously entangled, became untangled, and are now at risk of become ENTANGLED AGAIN.
verse 2 - By Gentiles now going to follow Jewish laws by becoming Circumcised, it shows they are trying to follow a Law to be Right with God. They are not right by the outward act to prove their righteousness. They are right only by Faith in Christ who is our righteousness.
verse 3 - if you want to follow the law to obtain righteousness then you are under the obligation to uphold the entire law which is impossible without Christ.
verse 4 - Justification is by Christ alone. Therefore a WARNING. These being addressed can become ESTRANGED FROM CHRIST. Tell me how do you become estranged from Christ if you were never in Christ?
verse 4 - You have fallen from grace. How can you fall from grace if you never received grace? Or put another way, how can an unbeliever fall from grace if they were never in grace? Only a believer can fall from grace. That is what it is saying here. And if it a believer falling from grace then a believer can lose salvation through unbelief, because it is grace that saves.
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Chris, I understand what you are saying here. These are serious warnings that believers must heed. I fell into a legalistic system early in my walk. It had disastrous effects on me. I lost my freedom, fell into bondage again, trying to be a Christian in my own strength, I horribly backslid. I was relationally estranged from Christ in that I wasn’t walking with Him. But God brought me out. And I know I never ceased to be His Son. I was a prodigal. I was a wandering sheep that Jesus came to reclaim.

And actually the entire time, when I was in that terrible state, you know what? I never lost my faith. I was astray, but I was still seeking, I was still knocking, I was still calling on Jesus’ Name. I never lost hope. I never gave up. I was double minded, but I pressed on, never surrender Because God did not suffer me to die spiritually. I still battle. I fall and get back up. But I never lose hope. I never lose faith. Because He sustains me.

Now I’m not going to make a blanket statement, but this is how God dealt with me.
 
D

Discern

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Dec 6, 2019
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Discern said:
Chris, I understand what you are saying here. These are serious warnings that believers must heed. I fell into a legalistic system early in my walk. It had disastrous effects on me. I lost my freedom, fell into bondage again, trying to be a Christian in my own strength, I horribly backslid. I was relationally estranged from Christ in that I wasn’t walking with Him. But God brought me out. And I know I never ceased to be His Son. I was a prodigal. I was a wandering sheep that Jesus came to reclaim.

And actually the entire time, when I was in that terrible state, you know what? I never lost my faith. I was astray, but I was still seeking, I was still knocking, I was still calling on Jesus’ Name. I never lost hope. I never gave up. I was double minded, but I pressed on, never surrender Because God did not suffer me to die spiritually. I still battle. I fall and get back up. But I never lose hope. I never lose faith. Because He sustains me.

Now I’m not going to make a blanket statement, but this is how God dealt with me.
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I know some of the above sounds like “I did this and I did that”, but that is not what I mean. This was the Grace of God working in me to seek, to Call, to get up, to hope and trust. I could have done none of that in the flesh. It was all God.
 
G

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Chris1975 said:
Agreed. This was reached because all three parties have made statements which were proven by scripture not to be true. Then avoided the very clear examples provided. Its not a game of shoot and hide.
Click to expand...
well, you certainly hide from me a lot.
multiple times, you just bolted from a exchange we were having when I posted verses you did not want to address.

care to continue??
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
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Apr 27, 2017
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#120,380
gb9 said:
well, you certainly hide from me a lot.
multiple times, you just bolted from a exchange we were having when I posted verses you did not want to address.

care to continue??
Click to expand...
Which verses?
 
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