Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
2,648
3,443
113
Sister, few can read between the lines. I am aware the Lord told me: Your not ready. To meet Him face to face, that is. You give me the impresion that beleiving in your understanding is what is required to be saved, like orhers here and like miself years ago. One thing the Lord told me then: Your going to fall that you may learn to continuallly repent. This fall from Grace is to humble us and free us from pride of achievment. To see someone saying not by works out of pride of achievment is seeing someone saying they cant be saved in their present condition. " But if we would judge ourselves we would not be judged."
Well at least you did not call me a "quarrelsome babe"

"Continual repentance" is not the Gospel at all.

You do not understand "belief" then.. study the Gospel of John.. that is where I started.
 

Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
984
141
43
well, that could be because he and any who think that works are necessary to maintain salvation are choosing the broad path, not the narrow path that belief in Christ only saves, not a belief that includes me, that is the broad path of religion that leads to destruction..
Same question to you gb9. There's no work involved in your "believe and recieve" doctrine?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,904
4,158
113
I cant read what you write anymore, your disqualified. Are you just proclaiming youreself. Jesus is not yourself. If would meet you i would beat you up to expose that tou cant turn the other cheek and are teaching others to do the same. But thankfully will never meet you and there is still hope for us.
Re-Wright this garbage. Are threatening violence? I am so utterly sick of you guys Trampling on the Grace of Christ I could vomit.
Like what Jesus will do to you stinkin works people!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,398
3,253
113
John 15
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
- we Abide in Him
-He supplies all we require

John 15
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

NOW lets make sure you understand both of those verses.

ABIDES IN ME, is Born Again = SAVED, when the Holy Spirit first births your once DEAD human spirit, into ETERNAL LIFE the moment you FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVED.

Bears MUCH FRUIT, is what you do AFTER YOU ARE SAVED, and that is Produce SPIRITUAL FRUIT, a Lifestyle CHANGE in your NEW Spiritual Nature.

Galatians 5:22-26 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.
26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


Those are not one time events, but a NEW NATURE of your ETERNALLY ALIVE HUMAN SPIRIT. In other words the ONGOING, dominant Characteristics of you Human Spirit, that was CHANGED, when you were Born Again, and are NOW producing YOUR FRUIT. AND AGAPE LOVE, that GOD given LOVE HE POURED INTO YOUR HEART, Rom. 5:5, which is the CHIEF FRUIT that your Human Spirit will Manifest.

Instead of the:

Galatians 5:20 (HCSB)
20 . . ., . . .sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,

Which you have been manifesting ever sense you got here.

You pulled out ONE VERSE out of JOHN 15:10, THINKING it supported your position. You have to look at JOHN 14:15 FIRST, to get the Correct Interpretation.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, [That agapaō LOVE, - Gk. Present Tense - ONGOING, SELF SACRIFICIAL, Never Ending LOVE; that means YOU WERE SAVED, at the MOMENT it arrived in your Heart, Rom. 5:5.]

you will keep My commands. [That will keep, is MOTIVATED by agapaō LOVE FOR THE LORD, after YOU WERE SAVED. AND IF YOU REALLY WERE SAVED, you will strive to do it. It does not IMPLY PERFECTION, but the Ongoing Lifestyle of the Born Again Believer.]
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,307
3,221
113
Same question to you gb9. There's no work involved in your "believe and recieve" doctrine?
well, since you and your prof have made up your own definition of Pisteuo, and ignored all the true ones, their is really no point in answering this...
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,164
4,839
113
65
lawton ok
Sister, few can read between the lines. I am aware the Lord told me: Your not ready. To meet Him face to face, that is. You give me the impresion that beleiving in your understanding is what is required to be saved, like orhers here and like miself years ago. One thing the Lord told me then: Your going to fall that you may learn to continuallly repent. This fall from Grace is to humble us and free us from pride of achievment. To see someone saying not by works out of pride of achievment is seeing someone saying they cant be saved in their present condition. " But if we would judge ourselves we would not be judged."
What you are trying to say is unclear. We cannot be saved by works or without faith in Christ
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
1,664
455
83
How do you know that all the people who were believers in Galatia who received Paul’s admonishing epistle, did not all hear Paul and reject and turn away the judaizer heresy

After all, we know that John said “those who know God hear us”. (Apostolic teaching as the Word of God, not of man). So those who were of God, does it not follow that they would have heard and heeded the warnings and admonitions of Paul?
Paul didn't think so.
He expressed concern that he had wasted his efforts on them.
If he thought that all believers always come back he would not have said that.
 

Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
984
141
43
There is no work

Faith / Belief is definitely not a choice .. and not an act the the will.
For instance one cannot force themselves to believe something unless they are persuaded... being persuaded, convinced is not an act of your will ... it is passive.
So you haven't chosen to believe?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
1,664
455
83
i got question can you proof this? is there any evidence for this claim because look at roman catholic church, biggest single church in planet, sod0my capital of the world and very evil. do they believe in osas? nope. do they believe in even what you believe? nope. they believe in full on ritualistic salvation thats very unsecure and even faithful people need purgatory. all this threats and clergy in there are the worst clergy on planet earth.
In general, the Catholic church is already apostate. Has been for centuries. But now, in this end of times, what remains of the church in the offshoots from the Catholic church even they are apostatizing, but in regard to an ear tickling perversion of grace, not works, like the Catholic church did. Both of which, in the end, do not equip a person to perform the works of faith that will be used as evidence to acquit them on the Day of Judgment.
 

Pisteuo

Active member
Oct 22, 2018
984
141
43
well, since you and your prof have made up your own definition of Pisteuo, and ignored all the true ones, their is really no point in answering this...
The only definitions of pisteuo I've given are the ones out of theVines," a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender", and a partial definition out of the Strong's,"pisteuo means NOT just to believe".

So back to my question. There's no work involved in your believe and recieve doctrine?
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
1,664
455
83
“Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."
"A little leaven leavens the whole lump."
You seem to have missed the point.
You quoted 2 Peter 2:22 to make the famous once saved always saved suggestion that only unconverted 'sows' and 'dogs' go back to their mud and vomit. I showed you the Galatians went back to theirs. And the text clearly shows they were saved. Kind of takes the steam out of the osas argument that only unsaved, unconverted people go back to their old ways.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
691
113
Same question to you gb9. There's no work involved in your "believe and recieve" doctrine?
A baby does not do any work to be born, neither does it do any work to grow, provided it feeds from the milk that is provided for it by the one who gave it life, and who feeds and succours it. Should that babe be lost to the one who gave it life, the babe in Christ is in mortal danger of its life. Otherwise, there is no work needed except to rest in the arms of Jesus.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
209
63
64
Walk trough the valley
its probably some other post. its not controversal for no reason

you are 64 and dcon is a marine you wanna try that? :D
i personally believe dcon wouldnt do anything. just because he uses colorful language and cals people some name on internet doesnt mean he is lacking in self-control. marines are usually highly discipline. dcon wouldnt do anything. just because he uses colorful language and cals people some name on internet doesnt mean he is lacking in self-control. marines are usually highly discipline.
But you understood: caling people names is puting ourself in danger of judgment. Jesus warned us not to. It's the same as caling Him names. Jesus did say it would be forgiven. Is that reason to be careless with words. He told us we would give acount of every idol word in the day of judgment. Instead of judging works and puting oursellves undet the jjudgment we judge with. "If we would judge ourselves we would not be judged." "Because judgment lingers long, mens hearts are bent on evil." "For this cause many are weak and sick and asleep among you: not discerning the body of Christ... nevertheles, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we are not condemed with the world."
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
1,664
455
83
well, that could be because he and any who think that works are necessary to maintain salvation are choosing the broad path, not the narrow path that belief in Christ only saves, not a belief that includes me, that is the broad path of religion that leads to destruction..
Works are necessary not because they continue to earn salvation but because they are the inseparable result of justifying faith. Your faith without works is no more the faith that justifies than the faith without works that the demons have is justifying faith.

The writer of Hebrews makes the point that works accompany salvation:

9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. - Hebrews 6:9-10

While the lack of works signifies a field that in the end will be burned.

7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. - Hebrews 6:7-8

But this common variant of once saved always saved says nothing has to accompany salvation and that you can be a barren field and not be burned in the end. In other words, once saved always saved claims Hebrews 6:7-12 doesn't really mean what it says.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
691
113
Works are necessary not because they continue to earn salvation but because they are the inseparable result of justifying faith. Your faith without works is no more the faith that justifies than the faith without works that the demons have is justifying faith.

The writer of Hebrews makes the point that works accompany salvation:

9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. - Hebrews 6:9-10

While the lack of works signifies a field that in the end will be burned.

7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. - Hebrews 6:7-8

But this common variant of once saved always saved says nothing has to accompany salvation and that you can be a barren field and not be burned in the end. In other words, once saved always saved claims Hebrews 6:7-12 doesn't really mean what it says.
I think you will find that the work a mature Christian will do is to work for the Master in tending the field that is ripe unto harvest, rather than working for his salvation. He or she, is already saved.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
I cant read what you write anymore, your disqualified. Are you just proclaiming youreself. Jesus is not yourself. If would meet you i would beat you up to expose that tou cant turn the other cheek and are teaching others to do the same. But thankfully will never meet you and there is still hope for us.
You better eat your wheaties and then you will still bite off more than you can chew pal.....!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
@Ruby123 @dcontroversal hope you guys are ok in australia i saw the air quality in sydney is horrible due to the forest fires going on there.
Yeah it was smoking hot yesterday.....had 50c at 430 pm here where I live...for my American friends that was 122f......and it is smokey as here.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
That is very true but he seems to enjoy doing it. Those who oppose him act like hard heads on the surface but they are actually snowflakes who can't stand criticism. He laughs at them and they get offended. I think sometimes he has a little too much, but he's telling the truth which is the most important. Yes we're talking about you @dcontroversal . Keep up the good work!
I know I am blunt and very pointed, nor do I put up with bs, especially when it devalues Jesus as many of these clowns on this site do by the dogma they peddle like a clown selling balloons at the county fair!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
Why do you think controversial is in his name? I've been familiar with him for close to two years now. He loves to debate and means no harm.
My name came about in 2007 when I joined AOL.....And I have used it ever since then....even in email haha but....it does fit ;)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
But, but.......salvation is not by works, and I can't lose my salvation, and God's gifts are irrevocable, and I can only be cut off from fellowship, and........
All truths you reject......make no mistake....you will beg Jesus one day to enter the kingdom.....!