Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
definition of apostasy - a falling away, a deception.

a falling away from what? a deception about what?

well, what saves?


belief in Jesus.

so, to fall away from that or be deceived away from believing in Jesus is what is warned against.

so, do not let these lying work salvationists deceive by trying to paint a picture that struggling with sin will cause you to " lose your salvation.

do not fall for this religious con game.
Shh!...Did you hear that?

That's the sound of the traditions of man crashing down! :)
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
You hate these scriptures. Because you love your sin.
If you loved these scriptures you wouldn't be kicking against them.
Even though I try to be as sympathetic as possible to people in the church who struggle with sin, I kinda gotta agree with this.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
we are saved by faith. the end.
Yes, but does 'dead' faith save?

Does the faith that doesn't work through love justify?

And just to be clear, we are saved through faith. Faith is our access to that which does the actual justifying and saving.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Don't get me wrong, I still get that warm fuzzy feeling inside if I help someone as I am sure all of you do too, but that is not for salvation purposes.
It is in the sense that your righteous behavior is the expression of the faith that justifies. Genuine faith that justifies and saves us has to sooner or later cause works of righteousness, or else it's showing itself to not be the faith that justifies and saves.

If your faith has not changed you, then you do not have the faith that saves. Or you lost it along the way for whatever reason. Barren fields are, in the end, burned (Hebrews 6:8). Righteous works accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9-10). Faith that is 'alone' will not save you on the Day of God's Wrath.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Instead of allowing scripture to conform them, they try to conform scripture to their own beliefs. Not realising that one day they will face the Word Himself.
...and they will see they are not as He is.
But it will be too late then.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, but does 'dead' faith save?

Does the faith that doesn't work through love justify?

And just to be clear, we are saved through faith. Faith is our access to that which does the actual justifying and saving.
Dead faith never was alive. It was always dead
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
60
28
Do you want to discuss this or not?

fact is water baptism will get you wet. And is a command of God. But has no salvation significance. We obey this command for same reason we obey any command we trust God

however. HS baptism saves (rom 6, 1 cor 12, Col 2, with Titus 3:5) among other

if we are not immersed (baptized) by God unto the cross we are not saved. Whether we got water baptized or no

Paul says there is on baptism along with one faith

one saves one does not
Rom 6:3-4
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 cor 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Titus 3:5
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Eph 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Rom 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

The Holy Spirit coming into our lives is part of being saved, the process of rebirth. Without the Spirit we are not saved.
The Holy Spirit is the fruit of the process, our communion, our life. Where is it the Holy Spirit saves us?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Rom 6:3-4
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 cor 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Titus 3:5
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Eph 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Rom 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

The Holy Spirit coming into our lives is part of being saved, the process of rebirth. Without the Spirit we are not saved.
The Holy Spirit is the fruit of the process, our communion, our life. Where is it the Holy Spirit saves us?
Who do you think performed the baptisms in the passages you quoted?

It is a mistake to think they are water baptism done by man. It says we were baptized not christ
only God has the power to do that
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
Romans 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

And more...

You hate these scriptures. Because you love your sin.
If you loved these scriptures you wouldn't be kicking against them.
i come from works salvationism and my sin didnt increase after i got saved.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
Even though I try to be as sympathetic as possible to people in the church who struggle with sin, I kinda gotta agree with this.
its the case that there is pleasure in sin for a season. thats why people sin its because its easier than not sinning.

its easier to just go through life with the flow, follow the worldly pattern your friends on everything thats easy and you wont be made fun of and you wont be lonely if you do it.
but if you swim against the flow of the world you will be lonely and mocked.
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
60
28
Who do you think performed the baptisms in the passages you quoted?

It is a mistake to think they are water baptism done by man. It says we were baptized not christ
only God has the power to do that
Are you trying to prove something, but not proving it?

Rom 8:8-10
Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Phil 1:27-28
Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,586
113
Obedience has everything to do with Salvation. If I'm not obedient then it is evident that I don't have the Spirit of Christ.

But the gift of Faith comes before the Works. Because the Holy Spirit is received through Faith. That means before I can do the works of Christ, Christ must be alive within me by means of His Spirit.

It is easy to put all of this in perspective if you think about what happened in the beginning. Why did Adam (mankind) fall?
- because Adam didn't TRUST (Faith) God and therefore took of the forbidden fruit and did eat. Therefore, had Adam TRUSTED, he would not have fallen. Therefore, TRUST (Faith) in God is the way towards Salvation even from the beginning.

NEVER HAS BEEN RELATED TO SALVATION.

It is RELATED TO the Kind of LOVE, GOD has Poured into our Hearts, (human spirit). (Rom. 5:5)

You do not believe in OSAS, do you? What a disappointment.

If you search the Scriptures, You will see it is Part of LOVE.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, {you are saved Spiritually, from the first moment you LOVE HIM.}
you will keep {afterwards continually strive to KEEP HIS Commands because of that LOVE} My commands.


1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


You will see, it is not that you do of righteousness, IT IS WHY YOU DO THOSE THINGS, that Pleases GOD.
So the MOTIVE is what GOD inspects, TO BE PURE AGAPE LOVE, or it is Wood, Hay, and Stubble, at BEST.
It is ONLY not a Burden, when the ACT is motivated by AGAPE LOVE.


1 John 3:14-18 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.




Actions MOTIVATED BY AGAPE LOVE, GOD will Reward with Laurel Wreath Crowns. SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT, not a reward.

A Motive other than that WILL be wood, hay, and stubble, and will be BURNED.

HE KNOWS EVERY MOTIVE for every decision we make in life; BEFORE TIME BEGAN.


9 “As for you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you, but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
23 I will kill her children with the plague. Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
Just an FYI, our denomination (United Methodists) is in the process of separating. As a member in my hometown of a UMC, I will refuse to continue under this denomination which is thinking about allowing homosexuals a place in leadership, ordain same-sex marriages. It is my opinion that this church I am a member of will separate and keep the traditional beliefs. Our church will probably split right down the middle of our congregation but that's ok as long as we who separate remain in the Word of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you trying to prove something, but not proving it?

Rom 8:8-10
Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Phil 1:27-28
Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.
I did prove iT and one again you seem to be deflecting
these two passages have do bearing on rom 6 or col2 or Titus 3 or 1 or the other two Hs baptism passages