Not By Works

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Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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In James 2:21, we notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
I agree...
I was just trying to show how Abraham had faith in God before he even took Isaac to the altar , he believed in God...
...xox...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I agree...
I was just trying to show how Abraham had faith in God before he even took Isaac to the altar , he believed in God...
...xox...
Amen! Offering up Isaac on the altar was a demonstration of his faith and not the origin of it. (y)
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Amen.... Scripture is clean that in the sight of God, it is by FAITH.


galatians 3

6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


Romans 4

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,



Not sure why people who have been shown their error keep trying to use the same out of context verses to argue against the fullness of scripture...
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
You will never get what James is saying until you acknowledge that James is not a Christian epistle but written to the twelve tribes of Israel. You do know that when that term is used, it is referring to the whole nation of Israel and not a called out group of Christians from that nation. Ever. You contradict the scriptures when you use as such.
The epistle is written to believing Jews, who are scattered among the Gentile nations, the fact he calls them BRETHERN tells us so.

So yes the letters are "Christian" letters.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Amen.... Scripture is clean that in the sight of God, it is by FAITH.


galatians 3

6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


Romans 4

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,



Not sure why people who have been shown their error keep trying to use the same out of context verses to argue against the fullness of scripture...
Faith is all over these Scriptures , yet it seems the word Faith is glanced over by many , and the word works is glorified...
...xox...
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
You will never get what James is saying until you acknowledge that James is not a Christian epistle but written to the twelve tribes of Israel. You do know that when that term is used, it is referring to the whole nation of Israel and not a called out group of Christians from that nation. Ever. You contradict the scriptures when you use as such.
You will never get what James is stating until you understand the meaning of "justified" with the context of the letter.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The epistle is written to believing Jews, who are scattered among the Gentile nations, the fact he calls them BRETHERN tells us so.

So yes the letters are "Christian" letters.
Proof text? "To the twelve tribes scattered abroad" is not believing Jews. Again, whenever Scripture uses the term twelve tribes, it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel and never to a called out group from that nation.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Proof text? "To the twelve tribes scattered abroad" is not believing Jews. Again, whenever Scripture uses the term twelve tribes, it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel and never to a called out group from that nation.
He calls them brethren several times....are you arguing the were not believers?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You will never get what James is stating until you understand the meaning of "justified" with the context of the letter.
You would never come about this distorted view on your own reading the Bible. This sounds like every other commentary that has no idea how to handle James except through sly reasoning trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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You will never get what James is stating until you understand the meaning of "justified" with the context of the letter.
James addressed himself as a servant to our LORD , and not as Jesus brother , this shows that James was humble before our Savior...

He became a Christian after the Resurrection , and became the first head of the Church , is this correct ?...
...xox...
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

That verse DOES NOT SAY that Abraham was justified (made right) before God, that's what works salvation want it to say. It only says that SOMETHING about him was justified by his works and that something is given in the next verse.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Abraham's FAITH was justified as being REAL through his works. Only true faith could bring forth the WORK of offering up your one and only son.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
You would never come about this distorted view on your own reading the Bible. This sounds like every other commentary that has no idea how to handle James except through sly reasoning trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
I actually understand James pretty well because I hate any doctrine that tries to adds works to salvation...so I have spent time on it.

No sly reasoning ...just good reasoning based on audience relevance and reading it from the right lens.

Answer the question ...are you stating the letter is written to non believers?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
James addressed himself as a servant to our LORD , and not as Jesus brother , this shows that James was humble before our Savior...

He became a Christian after the Resurrection , and became the first head of the Church , is this correct ?...
...xox...
Yes I agree :)
 
Nov 16, 2019
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you and the Roman Catholic church certainly have no problem creating doubt as to whether those who believe in Him will or will not perish/and will or will not receive eternal life.
Look at the bold underline in your quote.

Those who believe in Him will not perish and will receive eternal life.
Those who no longer believe in Him will perish and not receive eternal life.

That's why the Bible tells us to hold fast the gospel by which we were saved.
Because you can't remain in the safety of a gospel that you no longer believe and trust in.

"let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:25
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,356
2,137
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Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

That verse DOES NOT SAY that Abraham was justified (made right) before God, that's what works salvation want it to say. It only says that SOMETHING about him was justified by his works and that something is given in the next verse.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Abraham's FAITH was justified as being REAL through his works. Only true faith could bring forth the WORK of offering up your one and only son.
Not before God.

God doesn't need proof. He knows.